School me on flatheads... Did I bite off more than I can chew?

[1952henry]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Front view verifies long crank, '39-40 engine. Keep track of all the caps...rods may well be usable. If you are crazy enough to keep going and don't find any catastrophic freeze cracks I've got the sleeve pounderinner tool...
I think very early in this process...get the thing hot tanked, it is far beyond home cleaning, so you can scrutiniaze the iron for cracks. Most tanking solutions will eat out the pistons, but at some cost to the machinest who will have to add more chemicals. If someone will do that, that would be a great non-destructive way to disassemble frozen pistons...
What's missing up front is a crank driven fan used on '39-41 Fords.

Might have disposal problems, but a container with powdered lye in water would help to dissolve the aluminum pistons.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

THis is what I'd do. Remove the crank, stamp the front and center main cap so you'll know where they go if this thing ever goes back together. Remove all the rod caps that you can get off, there will be a couple that you cain't get to the rod nuts. With the main caps off you can usually pry up the crank enough to get the rest of the rod nut off. Once you get the crank out put plenty of penatrating on on top of the pistons, let them set a couple of days. NOW, start pounding on top of the pistons, if you see there not going to move, get a big hole saw about 2-3/4 and bore a hole in the top of the piston, now you can take a big punch on top of the of the rod and with a heavy hammer you can break the skirt of the pist off and out comes the rod, now with a heavy punch you can break edge of the piston where the rings go and all that junk is out of the cyl. Now the valves are going to be a problem for someone who hasn't done this. I'm sure there all rusted in. Just remember, don't try to save anything in the valve train. I take a torch and cut the valve springs and cut the valve stem about 1/4in. below the guide. Now clean that crap out of the valley. Now this is easier with 2 men, heat the bottom of the guide that sticks down in the valley cherry red, and with the help of the other guy and a long crow bar about about 6 feet long, pry up on the 1/4in. of valve stem that is still below the guide, once you get the head of the valve off the seat you can take a heavy coal chisel under the edge of the valve and some times snap the head of the valve off, If it don'r snap off it will bend enough so you can take the torch and cut the stem just under the head. After you get heads off now you can take a big punch and drive the guides down. Now you've got all the valve train out. Now you can turn the engine over and and squirt penatrating on the botton of the lifters and with a long screw driver drive them up just so you can remove the cam, after removeing the cam turn the right side up and with a long punch drive the lifters down and they will drop on the floor. After you have got every off the block that you can get off, Don't forget to remove the main line oil plugs behind the cam gear and one on the back of the block after taking that rear gear cover off. About the only thing left to remove is the cam bearings, probably be easier to let the machine shop that is going to clean the engine remove them. NOW, the best place to have it cleaned is a shop that has a baking oven. They will bake that engine and then put it into a short peen maching and it will come out just like a brand new block. I have all my engines baked before I start machining them. Those steel sleeves will come out, I remove them and bore another .045 to 3-3/16 and use 8BA std pistons. Walt

[Bruce Lancaster]

Listen to Walt. Don't know where Tobyhanna is...I'm in northern NJ and can lend you a couple of secret weapon valvetrain tools.

[Ol' Ron]

And that my friends is how it's done. You can also cut the rods off with a torch.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Listen to Walt. Don't know where Tobyhanna is...I'm in northern NJ and can lend you a couple of secret weapon valvetrain tools.

Tobyhanna is in northeast Pa between Scranton and Stroudsburg. According to Mapquest you're only about an hour and a half away... Thats not too bad, I'd definitely make the trip in order to learn the ways of a flathead master! We will have to work something out.

Walt I cant thank you enough for the step by step approach. I got the front main cap off, and it seriously looks good to me, I'll take a picture when it finally stops raining. I also got every rod nut off except for 2 and I'm fairly sure I can get them off if I make a tool to get in to them. I have the middle main cap loose, just a little more monkeying around and I can get that off. As for the rear main, I cant get the oil pump off and out of the way so I really cant get the breaker bar in there to lay on the torque. I assume the oil pump is froze up on the gear were it meets up with the cam. The fuel pump rod is the same way, it is also stuck for some reason. I will continue to tinker and get some pictures. As far as I can tell tho the crank and rods look to be in fairly good condition.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

You need an old motors manual and a few other books like mine or jWL's.
But the best tool for disasembly is the 50/50 mix of aceatome and ATF.
You have fun.

I would agree. This block maybe a good candidate for the molasass descaling/derusting trick.

If anything, you'll have either have a nice 48 or 78 series trans case.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

FlatMike. On the oil pump. Take a big pipe wrench and grab the pump right at the big part by the gears, Now, twist the pump back and forth, squirt some weasel piss around the bottom, now try prying up on the pump while twisting, DONT break the pump off, it will be harder to get out. NOW, on the fuel pump push rod, don't break it off, if you do you won't be able to get the cam out. squirt weasel piss around the bottom of the rod and take a hammer and keep tapping down on the rod while carfully twisting the rod with vise grips. Walt

[flatjack9]

If you have the pistons and valves out, you can try rotating the cam to get the pushrod to move while soaking it with Walt's weasel piss.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Sleeves...if this has the normal production line sleeves they are only about .040 thick, with the top part looking thicker because there is a locating step there. Welding might go right through and scar the wall or even worse succeed as a weld...
I've never worked on a sleeve motor but I believe they can just be collapsed. At that point, new sleeves give instant bore fix or you can over bore a bit and go from 221 to 239 size and get those bargain standard size pistons...

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Sleeves...if this has the normal production line sleeves they are only about .040 thick, with the top part looking thicker because there is a locating step there. Welding might go right through and scar the wall or even worse succeed as a weld...
I've never worked on a sleeve motor but I believe they can just be collapsed. At that point, new sleeves give instant bore fix or you can over bore a bit and go from 221 to 239 size and get those bargain standard size pistons...

The de-sleeving tool for a tin sleeve motor looks like a sheet metal sheer used in a air hammer. Looks like a chisel with a little notch in it. Smack it with a BFH (big freakin' hammer) and the sleeve will start to peel away and tear. This only works for tin sleeves. Cast iron sleeves are another ball of wax.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Twist like Walt says on the pump. also remove the rear cover over the pump drive as an extra window above the problem area. You woll soon have crank out or at least dangling so you can try turning cam using a dragling socket in disteributor slot. If cam gear is bolt-on you can free it right now that way; if press-on consider just prying to break the gear away. Don't turn too hard if cam won't rotate, but you might be able to move multiple things with the force available turning.

[FordMike]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

FlatMike. On the oil pump. Take a big pipe wrench and grab the pump right at the big part by the gears, Now, twist the pump back and forth, squirt some weasel piss around the bottom, now try prying up on the pump while twisting, DONT break the pump off, it will be harder to get out. NOW, on the fuel pump push rod, don't break it off, if you do you won't be able to get the cam out. squirt weasel piss around the bottom of the rod and take a hammer and keep tapping down on the rod while carfully twisting the rod with vise grips. Walt

I'm going to try this out. I really want to get that fuel pump rod out of there before I bend it or break it. Also if I can get the oil pump out of the way I should be able to get the crank out shortly after. The cover in the bellhousing at the end of the cam wouldn't come off. I didn't try too hard to pry it off because I didn't want to break it.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Sleeves...if this has the normal production line sleeves they are only about .040 thick, with the top part looking thicker because there is a locating step there. Welding might go right through and scar the wall or even worse succeed as a weld...
I've never worked on a sleeve motor but I believe they can just be collapsed. At that point, new sleeves give instant bore fix or you can over bore a bit and go from 221 to 239 size and get those bargain standard size pistons...

I am assuming the sleeves are stock as the pistons have STD stamped into the top. Although the engine could have been bored out then sleeved back to standard size, but I doubt it. I dont know about welding on the sleeves though, I probably wont be doing that.

I am not sure if it is anything or not but I remembered ford tractors having sleeves, and I know there was a tool to get the sleeves out because my grandfather had one. I was just wondering if there was some kind of tool to remove these sleeves if they in the engine stock. Anyway, heres the tool I'm referring too...

[Bruce Lancaster]

There were indeed pullers available...you are looking for one with 3 1/16 diameter on small sept, roughly 080 bigger on large part for 221.
Tractor and 239 flathead wer 3 3/16 and sets usually had a small one for V8 60 too.
Inserter is a big thing to support the thin sleeves during installation.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Most of the 8N-9N Ford tractors had those same sleeves, .040 thick, they will peel out. Some of the tractors had .090 wall thick sleeves, they don't peel very easy. I've even peeled the .040 thick ones with a sharp long screw driver. it's hard on the screw driver handel. Walt

[FordMike]

Alright I got the number off the trans but I haven't found the number on the engine.



I did get the oil pump and fuel pump rod out without breaking anything or causing any damage, of course I followed Walt's directions carefully. The oil pump seems to be in good shape, I actually expected there to be much more rust on the gear...



Other than that I got the rear main loose and the last two rod cap nuts off. Getting the main caps off and rod caps off is a real pain. I bet I'm missing something but I got half the rod caps off and one main. It looks to be pretty good, especially for an engine that is locked up so bad. I definitely don't think its a total junker.

The crank...



And the cap...



And that's it...

Unfortunately I am working on this thing outside and the sun is setting earlier and earlier everyday. But I am oiling this thing down and rapping it up tight every night so I don't take 1 step forward and 5 back. Just have to get the rest of the caps off and the crank should be free...

[Tim Ayers]

Dude, do yourself a favor. Get some of those cheap doctor-like gloves at Home Depot or something.

If anything, you'll learn quickly that old Ford grease stays with you longer than some tattoos.

[flatjack9]

The transmission is a 1936. Obviously your engine is not. There are no numbers on the engine.

[FordMike]

Alright it must be the stock trans from the truck, someone just swapped the engine out some time ago.

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Dude, do yourself a favor. Get some of those cheap doctor-like gloves at Home Depot or something.

If anything, you'll learn quickly that old Ford grease stays with you longer than some tattoos.

I hate wearing gloves with a passion. If you use a little dawn dish soap with the garden hose it wash sludge/oil/grease right off. The little bit of stains left don't bother me.

[1937pickup]

Are you married or have a girlfriend? The little bit left will bother her. I used to be like you but now I use gloves. Ford grease is in a world of its own.

[firstrider]

Part it out & scrap the rest unless you have $5K laying around doing nothing !!