The Ford Barn

GasWorksGarage · 09-10-2018, 07:23 AM

Hello,
we have a 52 COE with dump bed. Can anyone show me a picture of how the cables are mounted to the PTO and the hydraulic pump? I think I have all the parts just tossed in a box and not sure of the exact configuration.

Thanks.

47COE · 09-10-2018, 10:06 AM

I have a 41 COE with dump bed. Don't know how much might have changed between 41 and 52.

The PTO is a drive shaft off of the truck 4 speed transmission that has a PTO output. The PTO is engaged or disengaged at the transmission using a lever located in the cab.

The hydraulic pump is back in front of the rear axle. A mechanical linkage from another lever in the cab controls the up/down of the dump bed.

rotorwrench · 09-10-2018, 10:50 AM

My Pop's 48 F6 had a push/pull cable for the PTO mounted in the dash lower left area. If I remember correctly, it had a lever on floor near the shift tower to control fluid pressure to lift the bed and fluid return to allow the bed to lower back down. Some of these were installed aftermarket by the bed manufacturer so there will likely be a lot of differences. If it used one of the large push pull cables, there should be evidence of where it was mounted. Most have a knob as big as a transmission shifter knob on them.

GasWorksGarage · 09-10-2018, 11:53 AM

thanks 47 COE and rotowrench. Mine has 2 cables in the floor one activates the PTO the other the pump. I just don't have pics of how it connects to the 2. They are located between the seats

rotorwrench · 09-11-2018, 10:50 AM

Most PTO units generally have a way to connect and secure a cable assembly to them. It is just like a lock out on an overdrive or other similar devices. The PTO will be connected to the pump unit either close to the PTO or through means of a drive shaft for a divorced type mounting arrangement. The hydraulic system should have a reservoir and a control valve but some hydraulic lift units have a built in reservoir and control valve. They vary with different manufacturers. The control valve allows pressure to go into the lift unit when selected for the up position. When all is functioning well, the control valve will hold the pressure in the up position at full extension of the lift cylinder. DON'T trust these units to hold the pressure. Keep clear of the bed to frame area unless you have a suitable way to block it. When the control valve is selected to the down position, the hydraulic fluid is allowed to return from the lift cylinder to the reservoir with the weight of the bed providing the needed down force. The pump is only used to raise the bed and is fully functional with clutch operation and the transmission in neutral.

You should be able to locate the control valve in the line from the pump to the lift cylinder unless it is all self contained. If it is self contained, the the control will be on the lift unit somewhere. There should be a place to attach a cable and secure the cable guide near the control valve arm. Some of the old control units were lever actuated but I can see that in a COE that may not have been practical. My Pop's old 39 Chevy COE had two levers. One for the pto and one for the control valve.

skidmarks · 09-11-2018, 11:51 AM

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On a truck that old most likely a single acting cylinder and a tank. If no tank and 2 hoses on the cylinder then it uses one side of the cylinder as a resivor. Today i have seen a lot of double acting cylinders that are pressure up and down.

To answer the question, the cables attach similar to a choke cable. Outer sheild is anchored to a bracket and the inner wire is usually held with a set screw thimble. Adjustment is pretty much up to the way you like the way it feels. Cables have to have larger radius so they work smooth

GasWorksGarage · 09-11-2018, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Most PTO units generally have a way to connect and secure a cable assembly to them. It is just like a lock out on an overdrive or other similar devices. The PTO will be connected to the pump unit either close to the PTO or through means of a drive shaft for a divorced type mounting arrangement. The hydraulic system should have a reservoir and a control valve but some hydraulic lift units have a built in reservoir and control valve. They vary with different manufacturers. The control valve allows pressure to go into the lift unit when selected for the up position. When all is functioning well, the control valve will hold the pressure in the up position at full extension of the lift cylinder. DON'T trust these units to hold the pressure. Keep clear of the bed to frame area unless you have a suitable way to block it. When the control valve is selected to the down position, the hydraulic fluid is allowed to return from the lift cylinder to the reservoir with the weight of the bed providing the needed down force. The pump is only used to raise the bed and is fully functional with clutch operation and the transmission in neutral.

You should be able to locate the control valve in the line from the pump to the lift cylinder unless it is all self contained. If it is self contained, the the control will be on the lift unit somewhere. There should be a place to attach a cable and secure the cable guide near the control valve arm. Some of the old control units were lever actuated but I can see that in a COE that may not have been practical. My Pop's old 39 Chevy COE had two levers. One for the pto and one for the control valve.

yes I have located all the parts and have actually got under the truck engaged the unit the started the engine and lifted the bed. then shut the engine off got under the truck and lowered the bed t all works. I just cant piece together the brackets that mount the cables to the tranny for the PTO and to the pump via the linkage I have it all it was in a box just cant picture how it goes. I have new control cables.

GasWorksGarage · 09-11-2018, 01:13 PM

Here is a picture of the 2 parts I am asking about. the top 2 PC lever has to go on the pump the smaller has to go on the tranny to hold the PTO cable. It has to be simple but I just cant see have or were they mount.

thanks for your patience with me on this one LOL

Bob C · 09-11-2018, 02:58 PM

This may help a little. The cable housing clamps to the left bracket and the cable
goes through the hole that they have the short wire in.

Bob

rotorwrench · 09-11-2018, 06:48 PM

The shorter one on the left appears to have a clamp to secure the cable guide. It would have to align in one of the positions where it would apply the best mechanical advantage to hold the guide while the inner cable core pushes or pulls at the one of the arms. The long one looks more like an actuator arm with a clevis pin in one end or maybe a bell crank arm. I don't see a clamp arrangement on it but I certainly could be wrong. You can fabricate an arm if one is missing. You will have to use a good strong support bolted to structure near the arm that needs to be pulled/pushed. I've attached a link to a push pull cable type swivel. https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/pr...ct/U70371-000/
Where the cotter pin is inserted is actually where the cable core goes through to clamp it in place and the bushing end fits the actuator arm. This is just an example since the part may not fit your application. It might give you some ideas though.

One thing I didn't think of is that one of the old cables may have had a swaged ball or barrel shaped end on it. This is another way to secure cable core with an arm swivel device. There are other ways too.

GasWorksGarage · 09-12-2018, 03:18 PM

I have another question for you fine gentlemen. I have replaced the entire brake system lines wheel cylinders master cylinder relined shoes turned drums, ( not that this has anything to do with my problem.) I cannot get the air out of the system. I have to pump the pedal 3 to 4 times before it comes up. I have bled a gallon of fluid out of it and I get a solid stream at each wheel. Anyone else have this problem?

Thanks in advance.

Bob C · 09-12-2018, 04:15 PM

The manual says 1/4" to 1/2" pedal free play and the master cylinder is 1 1/4" diameter. Do you have a hydro-vac?

Bob

rotorwrench · 09-12-2018, 04:46 PM

This link has instructions on page 9 that apply to older and later units alike. http://www.dspartscompany.com/Docume...ake%20edit.pdf
It's best to use a power bleeder unit from the bottom up when possible. Some systems are very finicky about purging out the trapped air.

GasWorksGarage · 09-13-2018, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

The manual says 1/4" to 1/2" pedal free play and the master cylinder is 1 1/4" diameter. Do you have a hydro-vac?

Bob

Thanks Bob, no its not a hydrovac and it goes to the floor then within 3 to 4 pumps I have about 3/8 of travel.

Bob C · 09-13-2018, 10:02 AM

Possibly the residual pressure valve is not working.

Bob

Ole Don · 09-13-2018, 10:14 AM

The brake problem may be in the shoe adjustment. Most vehicles of this age require each shoe to be adjusted starting with the anchor, then the regular adjustment. Try that before the next bleeding.

GasWorksGarage · 09-13-2018, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Possibly the residual pressure valve is not working.

Bob

Bob, I took that into consideration and this is the 2nd new master cylinder.

GasWorksGarage · 09-13-2018, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Don

The brake problem may be in the shoe adjustment. Most vehicles of this age require each shoe to be adjusted starting with the anchor, then the regular adjustment. Try that before the next bleeding.

This COE has a cam on each shoe and to my knowledge I have them pretty well in line.

rotorwrench · 09-13-2018, 04:51 PM

Most brake shoes are set up to fit drums that still have enough meat on them to get some friction drag between the shoe & drum during adjustments. If the drums are worn to limits or more then the shoe is going to be near its limits for extension as well. The 48 to 52 large trucks still had the last of the Lockheed type brakes. In 53 they started using the Bendix types. My books show the 8T-2005 vacuum boosters on the W & WH models in the 48 to 52 time frame.

09-10-2018, 07:23 AM	#1
GasWorksGarage Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 168	1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question Hello, we have a 52 COE with dump bed. Can anyone show me a picture of how the cables are mounted to the PTO and the hydraulic pump? I think I have all the parts just tossed in a box and not sure of the exact configuration. Thanks.

09-10-2018, 10:50 AM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question My Pop's 48 F6 had a push/pull cable for the PTO mounted in the dash lower left area. If I remember correctly, it had a lever on floor near the shift tower to control fluid pressure to lift the bed and fluid return to allow the bed to lower back down. Some of these were installed aftermarket by the bed manufacturer so there will likely be a lot of differences. If it used one of the large push pull cables, there should be evidence of where it was mounted. Most have a knob as big as a transmission shifter knob on them.

09-10-2018, 11:53 AM	#4
GasWorksGarage Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 168	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question thanks 47 COE and rotowrench. Mine has 2 cables in the floor one activates the PTO the other the pump. I just don't have pics of how it connects to the 2. They are located between the seats Last edited by GasWorksGarage; 09-10-2018 at 01:18 PM.

09-11-2018, 10:50 AM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question Most PTO units generally have a way to connect and secure a cable assembly to them. It is just like a lock out on an overdrive or other similar devices. The PTO will be connected to the pump unit either close to the PTO or through means of a drive shaft for a divorced type mounting arrangement. The hydraulic system should have a reservoir and a control valve but some hydraulic lift units have a built in reservoir and control valve. They vary with different manufacturers. The control valve allows pressure to go into the lift unit when selected for the up position. When all is functioning well, the control valve will hold the pressure in the up position at full extension of the lift cylinder. DON'T trust these units to hold the pressure. Keep clear of the bed to frame area unless you have a suitable way to block it. When the control valve is selected to the down position, the hydraulic fluid is allowed to return from the lift cylinder to the reservoir with the weight of the bed providing the needed down force. The pump is only used to raise the bed and is fully functional with clutch operation and the transmission in neutral. You should be able to locate the control valve in the line from the pump to the lift cylinder unless it is all self contained. If it is self contained, the the control will be on the lift unit somewhere. There should be a place to attach a cable and secure the cable guide near the control valve arm. Some of the old control units were lever actuated but I can see that in a COE that may not have been practical. My Pop's old 39 Chevy COE had two levers. One for the pto and one for the control valve.

09-11-2018, 11:51 AM	#6
skidmarks Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: newark, delaware Posts: 3,735	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) On a truck that old most likely a single acting cylinder and a tank. If no tank and 2 hoses on the cylinder then it uses one side of the cylinder as a resivor. Today i have seen a lot of double acting cylinders that are pressure up and down. To answer the question, the cables attach similar to a choke cable. Outer sheild is anchored to a bracket and the inner wire is usually held with a set screw thimble. Adjustment is pretty much up to the way you like the way it feels. Cables have to have larger radius so they work smooth

09-11-2018, 06:48 PM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question The shorter one on the left appears to have a clamp to secure the cable guide. It would have to align in one of the positions where it would apply the best mechanical advantage to hold the guide while the inner cable core pushes or pulls at the one of the arms. The long one looks more like an actuator arm with a clevis pin in one end or maybe a bell crank arm. I don't see a clamp arrangement on it but I certainly could be wrong. You can fabricate an arm if one is missing. You will have to use a good strong support bolted to structure near the arm that needs to be pulled/pushed. I've attached a link to a push pull cable type swivel. https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/pr...ct/U70371-000/ Where the cotter pin is inserted is actually where the cable core goes through to clamp it in place and the bushing end fits the actuator arm. This is just an example since the part may not fit your application. It might give you some ideas though. One thing I didn't think of is that one of the old cables may have had a swaged ball or barrel shaped end on it. This is another way to secure cable core with an arm swivel device. There are other ways too. Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-11-2018 at 06:54 PM.

09-12-2018, 03:18 PM	#11
GasWorksGarage Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 168	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question I have another question for you fine gentlemen. I have replaced the entire brake system lines wheel cylinders master cylinder relined shoes turned drums, ( not that this has anything to do with my problem.) I cannot get the air out of the system. I have to pump the pedal 3 to 4 times before it comes up. I have bled a gallon of fluid out of it and I get a solid stream at each wheel. Anyone else have this problem? Thanks in advance. Last edited by GasWorksGarage; 09-12-2018 at 03:19 PM. Reason: spelling

09-12-2018, 04:15 PM	#12
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question The manual says 1/4" to 1/2" pedal free play and the master cylinder is 1 1/4" diameter. Do you have a hydro-vac? Bob

09-12-2018, 04:46 PM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question This link has instructions on page 9 that apply to older and later units alike. http://www.dspartscompany.com/Docume...ake%20edit.pdf It's best to use a power bleeder unit from the bottom up when possible. Some systems are very finicky about purging out the trapped air.

09-13-2018, 10:02 AM	#15
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,741	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question Possibly the residual pressure valve is not working. Bob

09-13-2018, 10:14 AM	#16
Ole Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Michael, Minnesota Posts: 1,713	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question The brake problem may be in the shoe adjustment. Most vehicles of this age require each shoe to be adjusted starting with the anchor, then the regular adjustment. Try that before the next bleeding.

09-13-2018, 04:51 PM	#19
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,425	Re: 1952 Ford COE hydrulic control question Most brake shoes are set up to fit drums that still have enough meat on them to get some friction drag between the shoe & drum during adjustments. If the drums are worn to limits or more then the shoe is going to be near its limits for extension as well. The 48 to 52 large trucks still had the last of the Lockheed type brakes. In 53 they started using the Bendix types. My books show the 8T-2005 vacuum boosters on the W & WH models in the 48 to 52 time frame.