239 Y-Block Trouble F250

[Chris_AAFord]

Hey Everyone,

I just purchased a 1954 Ford F250 in original condition, I brought it home late Tuesday night.

Here is what I have -

I looked at the truck to consider for purchase on Saturday, it did not start until we put a jump box on it (12 volt). Once it was started it ran ok and re started once without issue.

Tuesday night I purchased the truck and it started without the jump box. it was towed back to my house and it started a few times without issue and i drove it up and down the drive way a few times.

Wednesday I decided I would drive it to the corner gas station. It started right up, drove to the gas station (about a mile) and I got gas. Then it would not start. It cranked and I cranked it until the six volt was pretty drained.

Thursday - I charged the battery, it had good cranking power but it would not turn over. after a few unsuccessful tries I put a 12 volt jump back on it and got it to start. I let it run for a good 15 minutes, turned it off, and tried to re-start it. It would not start.

Where would you start with this issue? I'm thinking Carb (Holley 94). I also noticed some gas was weeping down the side of the carb so maybe the float is way out?

Thanks for all help!
Chris

[CrownVic55]

Check the coil. If 6 volt coil get a little weak they don't make much spark.

[Chris_AAFord]

Thank you, but I don't think it would run once it starts if the coil was bad. Also, I feel like bad coils are wives tales.

[Daves55Sedan]

It is not a good idea to jump a 6-volt system with a 12-volt source. Maybe fried contacts in the voltage regulator or damage 6-volt generator. Have you had the battery checked? These $120.00 batteries they sell nowadays only last about three years and they are done.

[Hot Rod Reverend]

What you have just described to us does not sound like a carb issue at all. You can check that you have fuel by removing the air cleaner, looking down the throat, and rotating the bell crank (or have someone mash the accelerator pedal a few times). If you see fuel down the throat, the carb is at least putting fuel into the manifold.

Start by looking at the charging system, it sounds like 1. Your battery does not have a full charge 2. The generator is not “re-charging” the battery once you have the engine running.

Generators are not alternators, you won’t get much of a charge at idle. Sounds like you really have not run the engine much or driven the truck at higher rpm... that battery needs a chance to charge.

Can you:
1. Charge the battery completely with a 6 volt power source?
2. Test the charging system with a multimeter?
3. Examine all points of electrical contact, including all grounds, the regulator, your cables, etc?

Can you post any photos of the setup?

Hoping we can help, lots of great guys here.

[Flathead]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Be sure the battery cables are good heavy six volt ones. Voltage drop will kill your spark when cranking.

[Chris_AAFord]

so you guys think that it could be a charging problem even know the engine is cranking fairly well? I made the assumption that if the engine is cranking well that it should also have enough juice to make spark.

That being said, i do have it on a 6 volt charger and its been charging for a few hours.

I still think its flooding, I'm going to take a look at the float and needle tomorrow.

thanks for all of the help and keep it coming! I'll try to post some pictures tomorrow.

-Chris

[Hot Rod Reverend]

Chris-

You said on Thursday it would not turn over. This of course means a very weak battery or a weak connection to the battery...provided the engine is not new/tight. Also, your comment about the engine starting when you gave it 12 volt boost means you most probably have an issue where you are not getting enough spark. The old 50s starters drained a LOT of electricity when they were engaged, leaving very little for the coil, distributor, and spark plugs.

The temporary flooding issue could be that your are filling the cylinders with raw fuel each time you have to crank, crank, that starter. As you know, the fuel pump will keep on pumping while you crank, and even your idle circuits will let fuel go through because of engine vacuum at the least. Pump the pedal a few times, or do a full choke, and once the ignition fires you will have a lot of black smoke. That would make it look like you have a flooding carb when the carb is not really the issue.

I would suggest going back to square one, but if course it is hard to diagnose over the internet.

[Chris_AAFord]

Sorry - Maybe I used poor terms. On Thursday I charged the battery, it cranked fine but would not fire and had gas weeping down the side of the carb.

Today I have the battery up to 99% after charging overnight, I'll keep charging it and see what happens this afternoon. I'll also clean up the terminals for good measure.

Thanks for all of the help.

Chris

[dmsfrr]

I've had this battery tester probably since dirt was invented. Not expensive, ones like it should still be available at your local parts store.
It shows you the relative condition of each cell of any lead/acid vehicle battery with removable caps. After several hours charging all the balls should float when you draw a tube full of water/acid up into it. Having a weak cell (or two) will make a battery act up and be unreliable.

[Chris_AAFord]

This is a good idea, my charger tells me the ‘percent charged’ but it might not catch a bad cell.

After fully charging the battery, I can get it to start with some cranking but I still have a nearly impossible restart condition on the second start even if I get the engine good and hot. I also replaced the needle and seat and adjusted the float which helped a little but not much.

I’m going to dig into the battery cables and grounds today.

[rotorwrench]

Checking out the ignition system was more difficult on the Y-block since they decided to put the distributor at the rear. I'd pull the cap and look at the components. Pitted or burned points would indicate a bad condenser plus the problem of the points condition. If the points & condenser are new, that still doesn't mean the condenser is good. I've gotten bad ones right out of the box. Echlin was a good brand but they are now owned by Standard Motor Parts so I don't know about current quality but a person can only test them in situ or with a capacitor tester. You can turn the ignition on and open/close the points with a screw driver then put a spark plug on the coil wire & ground the plug body for a test of the coil output. You can also just hold the coil wire high tension lead away from a ground a bit but don't set yourself up for a jolt. It should have a strong blue spark. Check to see if the polarity is correct on the coil too. The older OEM coils had "Dist" & "Bat" terminal markings but the later ones are + or - . On a positive ground system, it's easy to have reverse polarity and that will weaken the spark. Coil polarity check tools are available or the old pencil lead test can be done to be sure.


There are a lot of other possibilities including flooded engine or fowled spark plugs but I always start with the easiest thing first and that would be the condenser. A compression check might not be a bad idea. An engine with low compression is hard to start and the plugs fowl easily.


The old carb may have an internal leak or blown power valve that could cause the engine to flood. That would cause hard starting too. I would still check the easy things first though. Trouble shooting can take a while but the problem is in there somewhere.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Flathead

Be sure the battery cables are good heavy six volt ones. Voltage drop will kill your spark when cranking.

Originally Posted by Chris_AAFord

. . .
I’m going to dig into the battery cables and grounds today.

Besides obvious corrosion, look at all the cable terminal connections and make sure they are as clean as you can possibly get them, light sand paper works well. I've seen silver paint used to make the lugs 'look nicer', bad idea.

It's also possible someone in the past replaced a battery cable or the starter cable with whatever was handy at the local discount store. For a 6v vehicle to start easily the three main cables can't be the commonly found 2 or 4 gauge versions. They really need to be '0' or maybe '1' gauge, at the smallest. They're about the diameter of your thumb, not your little finger.
.

[Brendan]

ii have a 36 Ford Pickup, all stock 6 volts. when i first got it, it was very hard to start. and it was getting worse. when i would let off the starter it would fire, if it was not flooded. the trouble was loose battery cables. i tightened the connection at the starter switch. then it would spin over like it had 12 volts. the thing with 6 volts is the lower voltage there is more Resistance. 12 volts there is less resistance its Ohm's law. oh one other thing is my pickup was not getting the right voltage to the coil, that is why it was hard to start. so make sure that all your connections are clean and tight. and make sure that the cables are the right size 1/0 or bigger

[Daves55Sedan]

On the hard starting problem during the second crank, I would check the condenser in the distributor. Sometimes, after the temperature warms up an old condenser, it will fail at least until after the condenser cools again, then the engine can be started.
While you are in there, check the contacts on your points. If there is pitting, you should file the points with a miniature file or emery cloth, then re-adjust point gap as needed. Swipe a little bearing grease on the distributor cam too.

[Chris_AAFord]

Thanks for everyone's advice, it has all helped make this truck run better

Here is what I have done - replaced the condenser and cleaned and adjusted the points. I put a new battery in it and I cleaned all of the grounds. Spark plugs were black and replaced. I installed a new needle and seat in the carb and replaced two fuel filters.

Here is where I am now - when the truck is dead cold I can get it to start right up on the first crank with a little choke. The truck idles nice and it no longer stall
s out frequently.

Here is the issue I still have - Once the truck gets hot, its harder to impossible to get re-started.

I'm thinking i still need to work on the carb float level, but I already dropped the float height to 1.5 inches. The only other hunch I have is that the starter does not seem to have the cranking speed when the engine is hot as it did when its cold. it seems that if i can get the starter cranking fast that it will start.

Thanks for all help.
Chris

[paul2748]

It sounds like you need the starter rebuilt

[Daves55Sedan]

I drove a '55 with 272 that had the original starter for decades (6-volt system). It was always alright if I was just going back and forth from work, but I could never stop in between and shut off the engine to run an errand because if I did, I knew the starter would dog and it would not start the engine. The heat does have a negative effect on an old starter.
I finally got a brand new repro starter from one of the resto parts suppliers some years back. Ever since then I could stop and start whenever, wherever and however many times I wanted without a problem.

[Chris_AAFord]

This is a good thought, I thought of a starter as more binary.

Does anyone have a reference for a good part number for a 1954 Ford F-250 starter for a 239 OHV with a manual trans? I’m having trouble finding good numbers.

[dmsfrr]

I'm sure someone will come up with a part number, but I'd suspect 'most all 6v Y-block starters are the same by now.
Another option...
Look for a good old-school starter/generator/alternator shop near you and get it rebuilt. It could be just worn bushings or brushes. Much less expensive, and no shipping charges.

.