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Old 11-25-2020, 09:27 PM   #1
tommyleea
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Default 23 T oil change suprise

So, here are the results of my first oil change. The small particles came out with the oil. I pulled the transmission cover, and it looks real good inside the tranny. I pulled the oil pan and nothing abnormal in there. I looked back towards the flywheel, and the long copper strand was looped over one of the magneto arms. I removed it and rotated the engine to see if anything else appeared. All clear. Any ideas? Thanks
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

Looks like windings from mag coils
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

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Looks like windings from mag coils

Are they going to keep unwinding?
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:32 AM   #4
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

Yes they can unwind. Think about all those little pieces getting kicked up and running through the triple gears etc. To repair will require pulling the engine. The pieces may have come from the windings around where the bendix passes thru. Someone may have pulled or tried to pull the starter with the bendix attached and damaged them. Any bits and pieces still laying in the bottom of the flywheel area of the pan that didn't come out when the oi was changed can be picked up by the oil and slung around the motor. You could pull the whole hogs head and take a look see first.
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

That damage can happen if some nut or other ferrous metal gets dropped in the transmission and hangs onto the magnets, or if the magnets get too close to the coils.
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Old 11-26-2020, 08:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

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Could be a broken magnet or loose magnet retaining plate.
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Old 11-26-2020, 09:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

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Could be a broken magnet or loose magnet retaining plate.
So, it appears that it is coming from the starter area. I pulled the starter off, and there was a collection of copper in that area. The coil in the bendix area doesn't appear to be unraviling any more, but I can see shiny copper at the winding, which I assume shouldn't be shiny. I don't know how long it has been running with this condition. Can I just clean out the bits and pieces, or is it engine removal? Any other options? Thanks..
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Old 11-27-2020, 01:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

It is time to pull things apart and do a proper repair. The mag won't be working now anyway.
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Old 11-28-2020, 09:49 AM   #9
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It is time to pull things apart and do a proper repair. The mag won't be working now anyway.
I see Lang's has a field coil. Is it just remove and replace. Do I need any special tools? Thanks
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Old 11-28-2020, 11:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

You will need whatever tools it takes to pull things apart, and you will need soldering skills. It will become apparent what else you might need once you can see and assess the damage.
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Old 11-28-2020, 11:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

No it not just a simple remove and replace. I suggest getting one of the books on engine rebuilding such as the" Model T Ford Service" or "Repairing and Restoring the Model T Ford; The Engine". Both are sold by the parts dealers. There are setup procedures that need to be followed for things to work as they should. While it is apart would be good time to check for cracked magnets and replace as needed.

There are also a number of good You-tube videos on line that will show the process, for example;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfG9Ib1udxc
The whole series;
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...GmKK1nA0Yctp6G
Mike does a good job showing what needs to be done. The only real tool needed is the gap gauge but there are work arounds.
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Old 11-29-2020, 11:58 AM   #12
tommyleea
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
No it not just a simple remove and replace. I suggest getting one of the books on engine rebuilding such as the" Model T Ford Service" or "Repairing and Restoring the Model T Ford; The Engine". Both are sold by the parts dealers. There are setup procedures that need to be followed for things to work as they should. While it is apart would be good time to check for cracked magnets and replace as needed.

There are also a number of good You-tube videos on line that will show the process, for example;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfG9Ib1udxc
The whole series;
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...GmKK1nA0Yctp6G
Mike does a good job showing what needs to be done. The only real tool needed is the gap gauge but there are work arounds.
Thanks, I do have the service manual, but sometimes experience makes things easier. Are there items I should inspect prior to removing the engine? Thanks again. I see Lang's has a rebuilt magneto ring. And, would it be possible, if possible, to replace just one magneto coil if just one is damaged?
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

If you can solder you can replace individual coils.
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

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If you can solder you can replace individual coils.
OK..I guess the first thing is to remove and inspect. Thanks
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

First they are not going to sell just one or two coils(Lang's does not do the rewinding of the coil ring), next they are not all wrapped one direction, there is left and right rotation. By this time the cotton wrappings on the old ones are almost 100 years and well past its shelf life and should be redone. You would still have to pull the engine even if you were going to replace one which would be a big waste of time.

Did you watch any of the videos?
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:37 PM   #16
tommyleea
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
First they are not going to sell just one or two coils(Lang's does not do the rewinding of the coil ring), next they are not all wrapped one direction, there is left and right rotation. By this time the cotton wrappings on the old ones are almost 100 years and well past its shelf life and should be redone. You would still have to pull the engine even if you were going to replace one which would be a big waste of time.

Did you watch any of the videos?
Thanks..I did watch the videos. Looks like it is very involved. That is what had me wondering if I could replace the whole ring by myself, or if it would require special equipment, that I would have to purchase. Thanks again. I guess I will remove and take a look and go from there.
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Old 11-29-2020, 07:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: 23 T oil change suprise

Racing Model Ts sometimes had the magnets removed along with the coil ring and then used a distributor ignition.
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