6 volt issues

[Trout]

So, after changing plugs, wires, oil and filter I tried starting my 49 F3. It cranked slow as it has since I got it. It actually never started without being pulled even before I bought it. I had some smoke coming from the starter relay or in that area. I changed the relay with a new 6 volt and also changed battery and starter cables with 1/0 wire. I tried again but absolutely nothing. I found the wire broke off the starter button. I changed the button with a new one (same thing) and still nothing. I tried a new wire for starter button, same story not even a click. My battery is positive grounded to engine head but I found no grounds on the frame or cab. Can someone tell me how to properly ground this truck? I think my issue here may be due to poor grounding. Any thoughts?

[jake197000]

ground the engine to the frame with heavy cable and ground the frame to the body.

[Trout]

Thank you! Simple I know but just wanted to be sure.
Trout

[JSeery]

The starter button is just providing a ground to the starter solenoid. You can check the solenoid by just shorting the center post on the solenoid to ground, that will click the solenoid and turn the starter. If not there is something wrong with the solenoid itself, are you sure you have the correct one? It also has to be wired in correctly, the center post is connected to the battery side post internally. If the battery post connection and the starter post connection are reversed it will not work. You can check it by checking with an ohm meter. Disconnect both of the side post, then check for continuity of each side post to the center post. The post that shows an open is the starter post, the post that shows close to zero ohms is the battery post.

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Trout, I did all the same when I first got my F3. I made some #00 battery cables. Made a big fat ground to the body too. Everything I did improved it but it still cranked slow.

I pulled the starter and had a look. It was full of sludge and rust. I don't know why it worked at all. Cleaned it up, installed new brushes and bushings and a new copper post. HUGE difference.

I recently replaced the entire wire harness. Mine was scary bad. It now cranks over even faster, lights are brighter and the engine fires right up.

If your harness is as bad as mine was, be careful. Have a fire extinguisher handy and a wrench so you can disconnect the battery. Most of all make it right.

Scott

[Trout]

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Thanks for the info. I have been thinking about the wire harness, some of the wires are looking bad. Where did you get your harness Scott? Was it fairly close to the original? Can someone with limited electrical skills figure it out?

[Scotty's 52 F3]

I got an original style replacement from a few places. Bob Drake, Dennis Carpenter, eBay, and Rhode Island Wiring.

It has better modern wire and insulation but, correct gauge for 6 volt, cloth covered wire like original and same color codes. Fits perfect and matches schematic. Made in U.S.A. too.

Super easy to do. The trade off is that it's more expensive than a universal harness. You also have to buy all the individual harnesses to make one complete harness. I could have bought a universal harness for about half of what I paid for the original type. I like the look of the original and I'm not adding anything else like power windows or sound system.

On mine the cowl harness is the biggest and most expensive one. Then I had to get the tail light harness, headlight harness, etc. Each harness came packed with a diagram plus the manual has a schematic. It fits perfect and is easy.

I added turn signals so I bought cloth covered 14 gauge wire in the colors that matched the Signal-Stat switch diagram. There was no diagram or info on the wires for my electric wipers so I just bought wire for that too. I also bought the brass bullet terminals and female connectors to keep it all the same. You can solder the bullets on or crimp them if you have the tool.

I just shopped around for the best prices and bought when there were sales going on or free shipping.

Take pics and notes before you take harness out. Don't throw it away until you replace it.

Scott

[Trout]

Thank you Scott, much appreciated.

[JSeery]

Did you get the starter solenoid working?

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Make sure you get the correct solenoid. Try jumping the solenoid. That way you know if the starter even works. If it does, find out why the solenoid isn't being activated by the starting switch.

I think in your case the solenoid is hot and the starter button grounds it so it will close and allow current from battery to starter.

Make sure you have good grounds from battery to engine as well as grounds to frame and body.

(I don't know why the word solenoid is underlined? I didn't do it.)

[JSeery]

The software does that, like a hyper link. They normally go away.

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Thanks, I didn't know why it was doing that.

[cmbrucew]

(I don't know why the word solenoid is underlined? I didn't do it.)

My computer does that when i misspell a word.

Bruce

[Trout]

Still no action from the starter button. I jumped from the negative post on the battery to the center post of the relay and the starter spins good. I grounded the positive post of battery to the engine, grounded from the engine to the frame and the frame to the cab. My battery reads 6.35 volts. I check from negative post to cab and that also reads 6.35 volts. I guess that makes sense to me but is that right?

[Trout]

I still haven't found out for sure what started smoking when I tried starting it before I changed the relay. Any ideas what else may have burned?

[JSeery]

Well there's your problem!!! The solenoid should operate off of the (+) battery post on a positive grounded system! It is a ground that operates the starter solenoid, not the power side. Sounds like the solenoid is either connected up wrong or is the wrong type of solenoid in the first place.

Assuming it the correct solenoid you have the wires reversed on the larger terminals on the solenoid. Applying power to the center terminal would provide power to the starter and connect the relay in the solenoid (I'm guessing, never intentionally connected one up backwards).

Connect the center terminal to a ground and see if it works, if not then it is wired backwards!

Number 1 on the diagram should be connected to the Battery and number 3 to the starter. Number 2 is a GROUND connection. The starter button is a ground. The ground from the starter button is what operates the starter solenoid.

[Trout]

OK, I will check that out. I never gave it much thought when I changed the relay, just mounted it like the old one and hooked it up the same.
Thank you,
Trout

[JSeery]

If you have a volt meter or continuity tester it's easy to check. Check each side terminal to the center terminal. One should show continuity and one should not. The one with continuity is the battery connection side, the side without is the starter side.

[Scotty's 52 F3]

JSeery nailed it with the solenoid. I was given the wrong solenoid when I first got my truck. Instead of the small post having continuity with the large post to battery, it went to ground. It is obvious when you TRY to hook it up in this case.

If you have it hooked up backwards and it still doesn't work after you fix it, maybe it was the wire to your starter button that smoked?

[gearhead1952]

Sometimes even if everything is working right may not start. I have had to run the starter off 12v and the ignition off 6v to get the motor spinning fast enough to start. Especially with an engine that has sat for a long time and is tight.