The Ford Barn

J Witt · 06-12-2015, 02:11 PM

OK guys, let me pick your brains on this. I was adjusting the rear brakes and heard a substantial clank while oscillating the drumm. I pulled the wheel off and found the axle nut to be little more than finger tight and the drum/hub rotating on the axle taper (greasy too). Both sides are the same -- nice little surprise waiting there.

The axle surface looks pretty good without a lot of fretting and the bearing and seal look good, with no grease leaking into the drum.

How can I determine whether I have the inside surface of the hub hitting the end of the bearing when I tighten the hub solidly onto the axle taper, also this affects the position of the brake shoes on the drum as well.

Is there a conical shim for this to set the hub depth on the axle?

Thanks,

John

Jwilli · 06-12-2015, 02:50 PM

John, there are shims available. I have a set in my parts collection. Call me if you need them.

Patrick L. · 06-12-2015, 03:36 PM

Tighten the axle nut [ 100-125 lb/ft] and see what happens. If the drum contacts the backing plate then an axle shim can be installed. Also check the keyway in the axle to make sure its still in good condition.
I'm always surprised at the number of times this same condition happens. There are some 'old time' mechanics that do not believe in tightening that nut.

J Witt · 06-12-2015, 03:48 PM

OK, thanks, that makes good sense and is about what I did with Model Ts. Looks like the same taper and key on the axle. I believe I'll go ahead and fit new keys just for good measure. Amazing how many wouldn't recognize that the cotter pin is the only thing holding the wheel on. In this case, only half a cotter pin!!!

J Witt · 06-12-2015, 03:50 PM

Jim, I'll probably reassemble this tomorrow and will sure give you a call if the shims are needed.

Many thanks,

John

RandyinUtah · 06-12-2015, 04:47 PM

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When you put the drum back on make sure the axle and drum are free of grease. They should go together dry

J Witt · 06-12-2015, 05:10 PM

Yup, the axle is plenty greasy right now. Got to get out Mr. Part Washer.

Patrick L. · 06-12-2015, 07:00 PM

It appears you're a fan of Glenn Curtiss. Me too.

Brentwood Bob · 06-12-2015, 07:46 PM

Buy a lotto ticket too. You dodged a bullet.
Bob

harleytoprock · 06-12-2015, 07:56 PM

I use lacquer thinner to clean the axle and hub hole. Then carefully install the drum without the greasy bearing or seal contacting the axle. After torquing the axle nut, check that the fiber gasket has compressed enough allowing the steel flat washer to make contact on the hub.

Charlie Stephens · 06-12-2015, 08:18 PM

After running with loose hubs be sure to check for any cracks that might be starting to form in the axle. I am the super conservative guy that would take out the axles and have them checked at a machine shop with the proper inspection equipment. If you are running hydraulic brakes be sure to run drum retaining clips.

Charlie Stephens

J Witt · 06-13-2015, 08:39 AM

Actually after cleaning up the axle and hub and reassembling, , the nut would not torque up. Not enough thread depth left on the axle end, so the tops of the threads on the nut get sheared off.

Looks like we're up for rear end disassembly and a new axle. The opposite (right) side cleaned up and torqued okay.

J Witt · 06-13-2015, 08:44 AM

Yes to Curtiss. I'm mostly a Jenny fan, here's my 1/6 scale JN4D-2 that is now in the USAF Museum at San Antonio.

Patrick L. · 06-13-2015, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J Witt

Yes to Curtiss. I'm mostly a Jenny fan, here's my 1/6 scale JN4D-2 that is now in the USAF Museum at San Antonio.

I'm close to Hammondsport and like spending time there. Glenn and my grandfather were friends and I feel he did more for aviation [ and motorcycling] than anyone.

J Witt · 06-13-2015, 08:24 PM

So I ended up grinding down the axle end with my Dremel tool using the "spin the axle with the engine" method. Re thread with 9/16-18 die and all is back together again.

Now the right side needs shims to get the drum out far enough and we will be good to go (I hope)

gridleak · 06-13-2015, 10:15 PM

i did the 9/16 18 fix but I made some longer nuts out of hex stock and only bored one hole for the key. The extra threads allow me to really torque it down.

J Witt · 06-14-2015, 06:42 PM

I used a 9/16-18 grade 8 ESNA nut from Ace, and torqued to 90 ft lbs.

Two shims fixed up the right side drum fit, and a 5/8-18 ESNA nut on that one.

Also found the right steering arm loose as well as both front wheel bearings. Much less steering play and wander!

I haven't finished going over all the running gear, but the moral of this tale is obvious.

Thanks to all for advice and to jwilli for the shims.

John

06-12-2015, 02:11 PM	#1
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Rear axle with loose hubs OK guys, let me pick your brains on this. I was adjusting the rear brakes and heard a substantial clank while oscillating the drumm. I pulled the wheel off and found the axle nut to be little more than finger tight and the drum/hub rotating on the axle taper (greasy too). Both sides are the same -- nice little surprise waiting there. The axle surface looks pretty good without a lot of fretting and the bearing and seal look good, with no grease leaking into the drum. How can I determine whether I have the inside surface of the hub hitting the end of the bearing when I tighten the hub solidly onto the axle taper, also this affects the position of the brake shoes on the drum as well. Is there a conical shim for this to set the hub depth on the axle? Thanks, John

06-12-2015, 02:50 PM	#2
Jwilli Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Kennesaw, Ga Posts: 511	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs John, there are shims available. I have a set in my parts collection. Call me if you need them.

06-12-2015, 03:36 PM	#3
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs Tighten the axle nut [ 100-125 lb/ft] and see what happens. If the drum contacts the backing plate then an axle shim can be installed. Also check the keyway in the axle to make sure its still in good condition. I'm always surprised at the number of times this same condition happens. There are some 'old time' mechanics that do not believe in tightening that nut.

06-12-2015, 03:48 PM	#4
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs OK, thanks, that makes good sense and is about what I did with Model Ts. Looks like the same taper and key on the axle. I believe I'll go ahead and fit new keys just for good measure. Amazing how many wouldn't recognize that the cotter pin is the only thing holding the wheel on. In this case, only half a cotter pin!!!

06-12-2015, 03:50 PM	#5
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs Jim, I'll probably reassemble this tomorrow and will sure give you a call if the shims are needed. Many thanks, John

06-12-2015, 04:47 PM	#6
RandyinUtah Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ogden Utah Posts: 242	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) When you put the drum back on make sure the axle and drum are free of grease. They should go together dry

06-12-2015, 05:10 PM	#7
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs Yup, the axle is plenty greasy right now. Got to get out Mr. Part Washer.

06-12-2015, 07:00 PM	#8
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs It appears you're a fan of Glenn Curtiss. Me too.

06-12-2015, 07:46 PM	#9
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,234	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs Buy a lotto ticket too. You dodged a bullet. Bob

06-12-2015, 07:56 PM	#10
harleytoprock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 438	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs I use lacquer thinner to clean the axle and hub hole. Then carefully install the drum without the greasy bearing or seal contacting the axle. After torquing the axle nut, check that the fiber gasket has compressed enough allowing the steel flat washer to make contact on the hub.

06-12-2015, 08:18 PM	#11
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,030	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs After running with loose hubs be sure to check for any cracks that might be starting to form in the axle. I am the super conservative guy that would take out the axles and have them checked at a machine shop with the proper inspection equipment. If you are running hydraulic brakes be sure to run drum retaining clips. Charlie Stephens

06-13-2015, 08:39 AM	#12
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs Actually after cleaning up the axle and hub and reassembling, , the nut would not torque up. Not enough thread depth left on the axle end, so the tops of the threads on the nut get sheared off. Looks like we're up for rear end disassembly and a new axle. The opposite (right) side cleaned up and torqued okay.

06-13-2015, 08:24 PM	#15
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs So I ended up grinding down the axle end with my Dremel tool using the "spin the axle with the engine" method. Re thread with 9/16-18 die and all is back together again. Now the right side needs shims to get the drum out far enough and we will be good to go (I hope)

06-13-2015, 10:15 PM	#16
gridleak Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: bozeman mt Posts: 170	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs i did the 9/16 18 fix but I made some longer nuts out of hex stock and only bored one hole for the key. The extra threads allow me to really torque it down.

06-14-2015, 06:42 PM	#17
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Rear axle with loose hubs I used a 9/16-18 grade 8 ESNA nut from Ace, and torqued to 90 ft lbs. Two shims fixed up the right side drum fit, and a 5/8-18 ESNA nut on that one. Also found the right steering arm loose as well as both front wheel bearings. Much less steering play and wander! I haven't finished going over all the running gear, but the moral of this tale is obvious. Thanks to all for advice and to jwilli for the shims. John