Fordson Thames ET6 wheel nut size

[ShaunG]

Hi,

Does anyone know the socket size required to remove the wheel nuts on a 1950 Fordson Thames ET6 truck? I am picking up a truck soon and I may have to change wheels to get it rolling.

Thanks,

ShaunG

[truckdog62563]

Until another Thames ET6 owner speaks up, I see on Google Images that all these trucks look to have the same USA/Canadian style 6 lug x 8.75” bolt pattern. That being the case the lug nuts are 1 1/2” hex. The rear inner cap nuts will have a 13/16” square end. There will be right hand threads on the right side, and left hand threads on the left side. Also important to know, the Budd type lug nuts will have been torqued to their spec value of 450-500 lb/ft. You might need a piece of pipe to extend your socket wrench. Stu

[ShaunG]

Stu,

Thanks for the info. I suspected they were 1 1/2" but I wasn't sure. The 6 lug x 8.75” bolt pattern is interesting as the Isuzu light trucks have the same pattern. Is this a common lug pattern? The torque setting seems excessive. I will have to ensure these wheel nuts are soaked in some form of penetrating fluid before I attempt to remove them. I'm worried I will tear a stud off or round a nut off. I will definitely ensure I have a long piece of pipe with me.

Thanks again,

Shaun.

[aussie merc]

if i can but in best thing ive found for tight wheel nuts and studs is a tool called a nut cracker its basically a torque multiplier generally available thru any truck parts outlet such as multi spares or similar you just may need to buy the correct sockets to suit came across them working in the pilbra now it lives in my tool kit

[truckdog62563]

The 6 x 8.75” pattern has been in use since the 1930s and continues today on the Isuzu, UD, and similar import type medium duty trucks. The only major manufacturer today still producing it, to my knowledge, is Accuride. The other big multi-national manufacturer of truck wheels is Maxion, which owns Hayes-Lemmerz which itself swallowed up Kelsey-Hayes, Budd, and Motor Wheel Corporation in the 1990s.

The below Accuride 2017 catalog pdf, page 36, shows the torque spec for a 3/4” x 16 tpi stud on a 6 x 8.75” to be 450-500 lb/ft. That is dry torque, no oil and no anti-seize (now will probably come some disagreement on that but I have an industry reference). Below is also the 2017 Maxion catalog pdf and Hayes-Lemmerz of 2003. The Hayes Lemmerz shows a 17.5”, but the catalog is old so I don’t know if they are still available.

https://www.accuridewheelendsolution...ct-Catalog.pdf
http://www.maxionwheelsandrims.com/d...ence-guide.pdf
http://www.dsuban.com/website_docs/H...alog_02-03.pdf

You’ll notice in the Accuride catalog that the biggest they make with that patten is a 19.5”. In the US, and I assume in AU, there are aftermarket 22.5” tubeless wheels available from companies such as Wheels Now in WI. These to my understanding are imported from Turkey. They look much different than old originals, if that matters to you.

http://www.wheelsnowinc.com/about/history.php

Used tubeless 22.5” and tube type 20” are also commonly available here from military surplus vendors. With these it is important to ensure that the replacement wheels you find have backspacing equal to or greater than your original wheels. You don’t want dual rear tires to rub. Stu

[redmodelt]

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I would think that 450-500 ft pd on a wheel stud from 1950 would be a bit much esp considering the age of the metal. I think at this point just getting them on good and tight to move the rig would be good. Then do some research and see if you can find the correct torque. You also need to know what grade of material was use in the stud, applying grade 8 values to a lower grade would not be so good.

I checked my 1948 truck owners manual, and I quote "Install the wheels on the truck" no torque values given in the book. This would be for the five stud wheels F1-F8.

"Two-piece 33 mm flange nuts used with hub-piloted wheels should be tightened to a torque of 450 to 500 foot-pounds. Other nut designs have different torque requirements. Check the manufacturer's recommendations for your equipment."


https://www.truckinginfo.com/150688/...rque-your-nuts

[truckdog62563]

Budd catalog, July 1960. Unchanged from years prior or years since. Stu

[Mart]

I notice that they quote the torque values based on the pitch of the threads, rather than the diameters. I can see the logic behind it. Interesting.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

I never worked in the motor pool when I was in the army but I had a friend that did. They had Sweeney Power Wrenches or torque multipliers that they torqued the wheel nuts with on the deuce & a half trucks.
https://www.ebay.com/i/382764128390?chn=ps


I still use the torque multipliers on some of the key large fasteners on the helicopters. Those fasteners give their full tensile strength while under full torque up. Some of the bolts we have to stretch torque with micrometers.

[redmodelt]

Thank you.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/6...e-1950-f6.html
Got it now.

[redmodelt]

https://www.facebook.com/fordsonthames/
https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p366663644
https://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/restor...fordson-thames
https://www.google.com/search?newwin...w=1280&bih=888

[supereal]

British made vehicles used a tool size that is neither SAE or metric. I found this out when I was faced with work on a "Singer Nine", and later with a Thames van. I made do with my trusty Crescent wrench where possible, and adapted other tools where necessary. It is rather like trying to use SAE tools on a metric vehicle, even though many machines, such as John Deere are mostly metric now.

[supereal]

It finally dawned on me that the name of the British standard tool sizes as called "Whitworth". This affected thread pitches, but the exterior sizing of most fasteners.

[Mart]

Originally Posted by supereal

British made vehicles used a tool size that is neither SAE or metric. I found this out when I was faced with work on a "Singer Nine", and later with a Thames van. I made do with my trusty Crescent wrench where possible, and adapted other tools where necessary. It is rather like trying to use SAE tools on a metric vehicle, even though many machines, such as John Deere are mostly metric now.

Yeah, but Fords were always SAE UNF or UNC because of the American parent company.

[rotorwrench]

I worked on some Rolls Royce aircraft engines that used the British Standard stuff. The Whitworth has the 55 degree angle to the threads & Unified is 60 degrees. I ended up with a bunch of British Association and British Standard tooling to work on Brit cars and motorcycles too. A person can cut either with a lathe if its still set up for inch sizes. It seems like MG was one that used BS hex sizes but metric threads. That one will fool you if you don't check. The Thamse would be hard to call.

A lot of British Ford & Fordson stuff was Unified if it came from the US patterns or supplied parts. I certainly wouldn't have a clue. My Pop's old Fordson Major was all Unified and it was a 1955 or 56.