Restored '32 Roadster???

[Doodlrodz]

Yesterday there was a remark or several remarks regarding a '32 roadster advertised as being restored and it having what appears to be Brookville rear quarters at least and maybe more reproduction parts. It's a very nice looking car and a very nice asking price of $80k. My question is where do you draw the line with so much reproduction stuff available when does a car cease to be a real '32 ? Just patch panels ? No repo body panels at all ? There was another one just a body sold that had Brookville full cowl panels and subrails etc. still sold as original '32 roadster ? I know some will say 100% stock is the only real '32 roadster but in this day and age you're not too apt to run into to a lot of them and more apt to run into the ones " restored " So where do YOU draw the line ?

[Grandadeo]

I guess it's like what has been said on here before:

For Sale - George Washington's ax that chopped down the cherry tree. Handle replaced three times and head replaced twice. But it's the real deal.

In my opinion if I towed home a real '32 roadster that Henry built and even though I had to do major panel replacement, It started life as the real thing and that's good enough for me. What I would draw the line at is taking that one original and spliting it up and making two out of it - and I have heard of that being down before with a much rarer non-Ford vintage vehicle.

Lee

[blawrence]

w2.....

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Doodlrodz

Yesterday there was a remark or several remarks regarding a '32 roadster advertised as being restored and it having what appears to be Brookville rear quarters at least and maybe more reproduction parts. It's a very nice looking car and a very nice asking price of $80k. My question is where do you draw the line with so much reproduction stuff available when does a car cease to be a real '32 ? Just patch panels ? No repo body panels at all ? There was another one just a body sold that had Brookville full cowl panels and subrails etc. still sold as original '32 roadster ? I know some will say 100% stock is the only real '32 roadster but in this day and age you're not too apt to run into to a lot of them and more apt to run into the ones " restored " So where do YOU draw the line ?

It must be getting harder to draw the line. I have heard of a 32 Ford roadster getting a Dearborn award ,judges knowing or could tell it was Brookville bodied. I have question this in the past and was told basically what you have asked,"where do you draw the line"? How can you judge against a repro body 32 when most of the woodies on the concourse have replacement wood bodies,or most cars here have Bradley floors,or etc,etc. Guess when Drake 40 coupe bodies are available they also will be judged as original,just make sure you do not have dual exhaust .

[Kahuna]

To my mind, what Grandadeo said is pretty much my opinion too. But, I don't have anything judged.
Jim

[barnfind08]

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Blawrence do you have any extra rear fenders for a sedan delivery?

[Andy]

I judge weather I think it is a real deal on how much of the body is Ford. Body shell and doors, it is a Ford. Anything below that is a composite or just repo. The body shell can even have aftermarket floors and patches.
It really does not matter but I appreciate the history that a ginnie car has seen. A car assembled from various pieces is still an original car if enough original pieces are used. They don't have the feel of a car that has always had the same parts.
A friend had the best glass car ever. It won a lot of shows and took him where ever he wanted. It was not a 32 Ford.

[37 Coupe]

Two or three years ago a friend of mine heard about a 32 Ford 3 window coupe near where he lives ,Columbus Ohio. Widow of owner also had her husbands 32 tudor with a 59AB in it,both cars he had owned since the fifties. Friend had first choice of the two and he opted for the coupe and another friend bought the sedan,the cars were not advertised and actually were not for sale so they paid hefty prices for them. Both cars were good solid original cars but the 32 3 window had its top cut off for what ever reason no one knows,this was done years ago and probably not by the widows husband,he probably bought it as it was. Think mayby it was not an aborted chop as luckily window post(windshield) and tops of doors were not touched,only area above windshield and doors but to the belt line below rear window,coupe had a 34 engine in it. Last year he hauled it to Brookville here in Ohio and they grafted new top on with insert,absolutely beautifull work you cannot tell it was ever damaged. He could probably bought a complete 32 3 window from them and been a lot further ahead,they had to charge him for complete quarters both sides even though not near all material was used,this is because of the way they are stamped. He will never take it to be judged as it will be built the way he wants,later flathead and he has a set of Kinmont brakes on it which are a whole other story,this guy is so lucky,stuff seems to find him.

[B-O-B]

A friend had the best glass car ever. It won a lot of shows and took him where ever he wanted. It was not a 32 Ford

I have a similar car as you describe, it is titled as a 32 & was that way when I purchased it. I don't advertise it as such but when asked what is that I tellem it's 32 ford hotrod. NOT ORIGINAL or HENRY. I guess anyone can call them what they want But don't tell me it's all HENRY or ORIGINAL when it isn't. I think that is where some get off line. If it's been repainted it ain't original, if teh seats been redone or engine rebuilt even with NOS parts it still is not original. Original is haow it was when it came off the dealership floor.
That is just my thoughts. what do I know nutthin much

[Doodlrodz]

That 3 window is a great example, is it still a real '32 ? Is it same value as a gennie '32 3 window with all original sheet metal ? It seems like the gap has narrowed between original and repo. Also is there a difference in the Brookville roadster quarters other than the way the wood mounts on the back ? Someone mentioned the reveal being different on the $80k car ? I have a real interest in this because I have the cowl and doors and have been looking for quarters ( orig. ) but if it's not that big a deal I know where I can get a set of Brookville quarters pretty reasonable.

[Capn John]

OK, the question is HOW do you tell an original from a repro?? And beside personal opinions, what's the quality of the various repros??

[Doodlrodz]

I would like to know what the difference in the rear quarters are between original and Brookville, and at what point is a car no longer considered a real '32 ? Mine for example will have original cowl,firewall,doors,dash,frame,front axle,shocks,pedals,radiator and grille,windshield, but would have Brookville rear quarters. Still considered a real '32 roadster??

[Uncle Bob]

Unfortunately this is a never ending question/answer mill, mainly because the real answer is "it depends". Sorry, no help on your specific Brookville question.

If you're a hardcore "original only" kinda guy, nothing but virgin, as produced, never modified is the only thing that will do. And you'll probably have to spend a ton of time finding such an 80+ year old treasure. Others are only interested in the appearance, others still varying points between.

My '36 roadster came to me as a cowl top, dash panel, doors and rear upper panel taken from an otherwise rotted body. We grafted those pieces to a 5 window lower body that needed the typical patch panels and floor panels. Not to mention fenders, hood pieces, grille, etc from nearly as many other cars. It's my "roadster the hard way". Is it genuine Ford? Depends on how you look at it. It's mostly steel manufactured by Ford in '35-6, but not all the pieces started out on the same car. Now, if I were trying to sell it as an as originally built car that would be fraud. But if I disclose that it is as described above then it's up to whomever is looking at it to make the decision based on what they value. For some it's a fake, for others it's as close to the original as they're willing to accept. Neither is wrong, they just have a different value system. If you're building for your own pleasure then make the choices that make sense to you. If you're building with the primary purpose of selling to a thin slice of the market at some future point, shoot at that. Just be forthright in how you present it.

[Andy]

I had a guy wanting to buy some 32 sheet metal to cut up and use for patch panels. He thought he could then say all 32 Henry Ford metal. I thought he was certifiable and did not sell him anything.

[Doodlrodz]

Geez Andy that wasn't me was it ? Hope you didn't think I was going to cut up those quarters.
Uncle Bob, No I'm not a hard core all original guy this car so far has fallen into that category kind of, it has a '37 21 stud eng. and trans. and a '40 rear but pretty much everything else is '32 and it's going to be channeled so yeah it's far from all original. I'll probably just build it as a modified for now and hope to find some quarters someday, as far as reselling goes I hope to keep this one having learned the hard way that they don't come along all that often.

[TJ]

This question came up some time back with the V-8 Club and it was impossible to draw the " line in the sand" on when a car is no longer original even if it looks original. The west coast guys have always been lucky to have nice rust free cars. On the right coast guys have to deal with a lot of rust and have to restore cars using patch panels( original and repo)to restore a car. No one can say when a restored car has too many patch panels. On page 26 of the V-8 judging manual (in your roster) under the title of "General Policy" you'll see that the club does not determine which parts are original or which are reproduction. The car is judged strictly on it's "appearance of authenticity". In other words "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks, it's a duck". If a person goes to all the work of restoring a car, that's one car saved from the "bone yard" and it makes no difference how it was saved.

[DavidG]

Doodlrodz,

With regards to the differences between Brookville '32 bodies and Ford bodies, the big difference in the case of the 3-window coupe is that Brookville did not reproduce the original floor pan. What they use is their floor pan for roadsters/5-window coupes, etc. That is a night versus day difference. If someone had or was lucky enough to find an original floor pan and made the switch, then things would get interesting.

In the case of the Brookville roadster bodies, there are basically six areas that stand out as 'unique' to them. Some are subtle, like the shape of the mouldings on the quarter panels, the insufficient flare of the quarter panel above the wheel house, and the inaccurate relationship between the belt moulding and lower body moulding at the front of the cowl. Some are not so subtle, such as the lack of the 'C' channel on the bottom of the doors for the weatherstrips, the lack of recesses for the clinch nuts for the male dovetails on the doors (the result being that '32 dovetails won't mount flush with the sheet metal of the door), and the really easy one to spot, the lack of 'pockets' in the sheet metal on top of the quarter panels that the wood belt rail (where the top attaches) fits into on an original body.

There are numerous other small differences, but these mostly get covered up when the car is fully assembled and upholstered.

Having said that, I sincerely doubt that Brookville's goal was perfect duplication. It would have made the project more expensive and the resulting product would have reflected that added cost. Their target market clearly was not the restoration crowd, as that is not were the volume sales potential existed/exists.

There are a couple of Brookville roadster bodies around where the above differences have been eliminated by highly-talented sheet metal benders. In those cases, does the question become moot, especially if the owner announces up front that his is a Brookville body, but no one can find the telltales?

Dave

[B-O-B]

It's only original once, at least that is what I been told.

[Doodlrodz]

David G, Thank you very much that's what I was looking for.

[tuki]

who cares..just drive it..my dad has a genie 32 3 window..all orig un chopped sheetmetal.except lower door patch and inside A pillar from brookville.it says 32 Ford on the title.thats good enough in my book