1936 front u-joint lubrication

[SofaKing]

Hi all,

I can't believe what I am seeing so I thought I'd ask in case I am missing something. I have a 36, 3-speed, tranny with closed drive shaft. The front u-joint is just a steel bushing riding on the 4-way spider, there are no roller bearings. There are no grease fittings, holes or obvious orifices through which to lubricate this thing. While it certainly appears the trans output shaft bearing will leak into the area, the oil level isn't high enough for that to be a reasonable supply of lube, nor would it appear to stay in the u-joint cover in any event. It looks as if the only time it is lubricated is when it is assembled and that remains until failure, unless your the type who pulls the rearend whenever you do a little greasing.
How is this u-joint lubricated in service? I haven't got to the rear u-joint yet, is it the same?

Thanks.

[V8COOPMAN]

DON'T waste your time lookin' for a REAR joint, 'cuz it ain't there! DD

[1931 flamingo]

The two piece clam shell cover that covers the u-joint should have a grease fitting on it. Pump it full until you see grease at the speedo turtle opening.
Paul in CT

[Kube]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

The two piece clam shell cover that covers the u-joint should have a grease fitting on it. Pump it full until you see grease at the speedo turtle opening.
Paul in CT

This is correct. Use Corn head Grease as regular bearing grease will simply be "pushed away" from the joint. Corn Head grease has tiny fibers that will get in to the proper areas.

[V12Bill]

Corn Head grease when warmed up becomes a heavy oil that will lube the U joint bushings. Never use chassis grease as it will just be pushed out o the way for the U joint to run in a hollowed out air space.

[SofaKing]

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

DON'T waste your time lookin' for a REAR joint, 'cuz it ain't there! DD

Touche' Open mouth insert keyboard.

Now I have to study-up on cornhead grease. Thanks for the advice.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by SofaKing

Touche' Open mouth insert keyboard.

Now I have to study-up on cornhead grease. Thanks for the advice.

John Deere sells it.

[Talkwrench]

It is lubed from the amount of oil coming past the rear bearing in the box. Its a pretty tough setup that uni. You can pump low melt grease in there but I think its over rated, it more to lube between the inner uni housing and outer clam. I can tell you Mac Van Pelt and I discussed this. After a very recent rebuild of my gearbox all I did was put some heavy duty oil stabilizer all over the uni along with some low melt grease. I had only taken it for a few runs and what did I notice weeping out of the 'clam' gaskets...gear box oil. Even when I tore the gear box down it was only oil on the uni, any of the previous grease I had tried to pump in there was gone.

[supereal]

The genuine Ford U-joint is very durable. Between grease in the housing and oil from the transmission, they usually outlast the rest of the vehicle. Some replaced them with the Lincoln joint, which used needle bearings in the cups. If you have problems reaching the grease fitting, install an extension.

[Lawrie]

I can tell you what happens when you fill the u/joint cavity full of grease,after a while the gearbox will not shift as nice,why,because the grease has got into the gearbox and messed up the oil,
Lawrie

[Terry,OH]

I believe John Deere may have a video of the corn head grease in action. Note it will turn to a liquid when worked and stay semi solid where it is not worked. The head is horizontal and the liquid will stay in place and the semi solids prevent it from weeping away. The Ford U-joint is vertical. I do not know if this will make a big difference but I use a 0-0 grease it is very thick liquid (re-combine) put only about 4 Oz (Fords recommended amount) in the housing through the speedometer turtle hole using a thin plastic tube and a squeeze bottle. I install sealed bearings in the transmission (seals on the outside of front and rear only) What is now in the transmission or the U-joint stays where it should be. I only use the Zerk fitting on the U-joint housing to lube the space between the inner and outer housing. I believe the important part is to have some type of lube in the housing and between the housings.

[BILL WZOREK]

I think a lot of us forget these are cars / Well built cars / NOT sewing machines.
and we don't really drive them as much as we think or would like to.
And because we want to tinker with them & we want them to last forever we tend to grab the grease guns / start pulling fill plugs & topping off 1 + - ounce of grease.
Remember these were daily drivers in the day & probably never got the service they should have, and they lasted to be able to call your garage home.

So get your self a recommended lube time table & put the grease gun back on the hook / grab the keys and lets put some miles on them this year.
( GAS PRICES ARE LOW NOW )

[rheltzel]

Right on, Bill.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Kube

This is correct. Use Corn head Grease as regular bearing grease will simply be "pushed away" from the joint. Corn Head grease has tiny fibers that will get in to the proper areas.

Originally Posted by Kube

John Deere sells it.

Take Kube's advice from above and use the John Deere Cornhead grease. It's an amazing formulation. It can be found in tubes at most any JD dealer. Also great as a steering box lubricant. Take the time to find the video that explains it's properties on the John Deere web site...the video can be difficult to find. Try the link below. DD

https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/d...reaseVideo.wmv

[Talkwrench]

Does someone have it written in a Ford manual ?
As Lawrie said all that grease will just end up in the gearbox more-so if your going overboard with it.
From what I have seen you could try pump it through the speedo drive but I think most of it is just going to sit there at the end of the torque tube, you would need shit loads. So how many of us have a grease nipple [zerk] on each clam .. how many have only one, how many have none? They are really there just to lube the end of the torque tube cup. Now try remove a grease nipple push a wire through there and see if it even passes past the inner cup , there is hole[s] in that cup but they may not line up, if I turn mine around the holes don't line up, again there maybe some that have no holes??

I think Bill is on the money..

[corvette8n]

I have JD cornhead grease for my Ford 8N steering gear case.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by Talkwrench

Does someone have it written in a Ford manual ?
As Lawrie said all that grease will just end up in the gearbox more-so if your going overboard with it.
From what I have seen you could try pump it through the speedo drive but I think most of it is just going to sit there at the end of the torque tube, you would need shit loads. So how many of us have a grease nipple [zerk] on each clam .. how many have only one, how many have none? They are really there just to lube the end of the torque tube cup. Now try remove a grease nipple push a wire through there and see if it even passes past the inner cup , there is hole[s] in that cup but they may not line up, if I turn mine around the holes don't line up, again there maybe some that have no holes??

I think Bill is on the money..

Yes, from the V8 Service Bulletins "The universal joint housing should be filled with a universal joint lubricant composed of cylinder oil, thickened with sodium tallow soap. Pressure gun lubricator fittings are provided."

Bob

[Talkwrench]

Bob did it give a service interval and how much?
Cant see the gearbox liking that mix..

[FlatheadTed]

As well as filling the gearbox it will work its way down the torque tube and the rear end level; will start to rise ,but that's ok it meant to do that as the front drive shaft bearing needs lubing .a failer there will stop you in a hurry .I have had no experience with Corn head but it sounds a bit like CV grease .My theory has been that in the 50/60s they lubed the clam with HT grease this helped to seal it .then spill over from filling the trans got thrown around there .the Zerk holes don't line up but you need lub between there any way ,Ted

Originally Posted by Talkwrench

Does someone have it written in a Ford manual ?
As Lawrie said all that grease will just end up in the gearbox more-so if your going overboard with it.
From what I have seen you could try pump it through the speedo drive but I think most of it is just going to sit there at the end of the torque tube, you would need shit loads. So how many of us have a grease nipple [zerk] on each clam .. how many have only one, how many have none? They are really there just to lube the end of the torque tube cup. Now try remove a grease nipple push a wire through there and see if it even passes past the inner cup , there is hole[s] in that cup but they may not line up, if I turn mine around the holes don't line up, again there maybe some that have no holes??

I think Bill is on the money..

[David J]

[QUOTE=Talkwrench;1023229]Does someone have it written in a Ford manual ?
Info from 1934 service bulletin

[Talkwrench]

Good point Ted there is a bearing in that lot too and there is no direct lube point for that. Nothing should be going down the torque tube unless the seal is shot .

4oz equivalent to half a cup?

Mm just not seeing what good its going to do when oil is getting in there anyway??

[RalphG]

I have a 1939 Mercury manual with the lube chart and that is where I discovered that there is a grease fitting for that u joint. I don't recall ever greasing it and so far have not been able to find it. Need to get under there and clean it up a bit to see if there is indeed a grease fitting. But I doubt it has seen grease in many years yet everything runs smooth on this old 39 Deluxe.

[SofaKing]

I have been researching your suggestions about "corn head grease" and the 1934 service bulletin about oil soap grease and it appears corn head grease is a sodium soap thickened oil based grease. In other words they appear to be the same thing. The MSDS for cornhead grease also describes it as a "fibrous" grease which is the same description supplied for sodium soap grease and offered above. Its not the final word, but I am presently convinced that cornhead grease is a suitable substitute. I still puzzle over the migration from the transmission to the housing to the torque tube and back but cannot complain about the condition of the u-joint. Truth is I wish I hadn't removed the retaining rings, can't seem to buy them individually. Thanks for all the comments.

[Talkwrench]

SO what did you find when you pulled it apart? was it covered very lightly with oil or was it completely dry?

I'm sure that there is a very small amount of oil that comes past the open bearing it also rides along the main shaft works its way inside the uni helping to lube the splines it has to slide on and as it get to the end its going to flick outwards towards the uni bearings , it has to work back a little further too to hit the speedo drive and the roller bearing for the drive shaft.

The amount of oil is still enough to make the inner and outer clam gaskets leak ..damn! they should be made thicker, next time I'll cut my own.

[SofaKing]

Both were covered lightly with oil, I don't know if it was gear lube from the tranny or simply oil that separated from grease. I say both because the original 39 drivetrain that was installed when I bought had a substantial amount of old grease in the clamshell when I took it apart. The 36 drive train I bought had been removed from a car and was already apart but the u-joint was bolted to the output shaft and in-spite of having been cleaned was also greasy/oily and in good shape. When I was cleaning the grease off the 36 knuckles with a cotton swab and lacquer thinner in search of a zerk the thinner washed the bearing/bushings and I was concerned I just washed out the rollers (that aren't there). This is what prompted my question. This is my first flathead/ wayback machine and most things are not what I expect. It reminds me of the line from Dracula; "Your ways are not our ways".

Anyone have insight into the cork gasket versus felt gasket? Apparently there is a problematic cork gasket thereabouts. I assume it is used at the clamshell- torque tube interface but haven't done any research so far, just heard about it .

[FlatheadTed]

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A while back I tried to make that soda soap grease with the tallow it stunk like a old cow ( tallow dept at the freezing works /slaughter works ) I think best stick with a modern equivalent.

[Talkwrench]

The cork is fine, can be a bit tricky . I have used some Permatex non hardening under it where it sits in the groove of the shell and just wipe some grease on the top that will do. BUT take some time to get all these parts flat again , if you have a linisher or a big flat sanding disc. Put the 'clam' together and see what that looks like you'll be surprised. As I said when I assembled my uni [ now be careful with this as the uni sits up to the rear bearing and you don't want to over tighten it as it pulls on all of that , try turning the shaft, then try turning it when you tighten the bolt, with Loctite I might add.. see the difference.] Ok where was I.. ahh yes, I just coated the uni with a product called heavy duty oil stabilizer, its an additive you can put it in most things and its very sticky, after that I just used a small amount of low melt type grease, but that's probably been thrown off buy now.