1933 model b oil pan drop

[FrankWest]

Pan won't drop beyone the center y frame support and steering front wheel bar. Please help

[1931 flamingo]

Try turning the wheels full left or right.

Paul in CT

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Try turning the wheels full left or right.

Paul in CT

Still no room

[FrankWest]

It must have to push forward to come off because the y pn the support frame is to tight near the flywheel cover!

[DavidG]

You have to detach the front axle radius rod assembly (what I believe you refer to as the "center Y frame support") where it is attached to the center cross member and lower it sufficiently to drop the pan clear of the flywheel.

[FrankWest]

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Originally Posted by DavidG

You have to detach the front axle radius rod assembly (what I believe you refer to as the "center Y frame support") where it is attached to the center cross member and lower it sufficiently to drop the pan clear of the flywheel.

I don't understand your comment, please help...
The steering bar connects between both front wheels and is a rod approx 1/2 inch diameter.
The Y section is rear of the flywheel and does not seem to have any connection to the steering?

[FrankWest]

Does anyone have a diafram, drawing of the underside of this car??
All the chassis views show the car from the top. not the bottom.

[billwill]

Take it to a local repair station GoodLuck

[Mart]

The Y section or "wishbone" is fixed to the frame at the rear with a cap and two bolts and nuts. Remove the cap. Lower the rear of the wishbone until you have enough clearance. If the tie rod is in the way remove that too.

If you still need help it would be good if you could post some pictures of the problem.

Mart.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by billwill

Take it to a local repair station GoodLuck

Local service stations have NO IDEA how to work on these antique cars!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Mart

The Y section or "wishbone" is fixed to the frame at the rear with a cap and two bolts and nuts. Remove the cap. Lower the rear of the wishbone until you have enough clearance. If the tie rod is in the way remove that too.

If you still need help it would be good if you could post some pictures of the problem.

Mart.

Great info! I know that ford had trouble fitting these model B engines in the 1933 body because there were larger than the v8's that the 1932, 1933 and later were designed for. So you probably have to remove these braces to drop the pan. Well, so is life....complicated...It is interesting to be working on a 1933 car anyway... and I am in no real hurry..

I guess The English have experience in these B model fords because so many were exported.
Thanks for your help from England....A beautiful country I would like to visit some day.

Thanks a million...

[FrankWest]

That rear wishbone Cap has two sets of springs attached with wires ... strange...
it looks complicated....

[Mart]

Nothings making sense to me, Frank, without some photo's it's hard to offer advice. I have a 33 and nowhere are there "springs with wires" except for possibly the radiator mounting.

Mart.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Mart

Nothings making sense to me, Frank, without some photo's it's hard to offer advice. I have a 33 and nowhere are there "springs with wires" except for possibly the radiator mounting.

Mart.

Here is a brief sketch, can't find my camera

[JSeery]

Might be a good idea to invest in a cheap digital camera. They really are cheap these days and are worth their weight in gold for working around older cars. Make sure it is one that is easy to download to a computer.

[jerseyboy]

Frank,

Just posted this on your underside view request. Does this help at all?

Keep 4-banging!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by jerseyboy

Frank,

Just posted this on your underside view request. Does this help at all?

Keep 4-banging!

You wishbone is clean,,,Mine have ywo set of spring attached to rods that go to the steering.... To maintain steering resiliance???? Don't know

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

You wishbone is clean,,,Mine have ywo set of spring attached to rods that go to the steering.... To maintain steering resiliance???? Don't know

My wishbone has springs tied around one edge with wire and the other side of the each of two springs linked to a rod for each wheel.... to give the sterring a firmness,, to hold its position i assume???

[FrankWest]

I will try to get a picture for you, but if yoiur car does not have this how do the wheels maintain position during steering?? Perhaps mine is a cludge fixe and I could repair my car to its proper state???

[Mart]

Ok, I THINK some previous owner has attached some springs to that area to help the brakes release. I THINK the rods that Frank says go to the steering are the brake rods.

Frank, get someone to operate the brake pedal and watch to see if the part the springs are attached to are moving.

I THINK you can detach the springs, lower the wishbone and remove the pan.

I have reservations, though, Frank, about your skill level (hope I'm wrong), no disrespect, but what are you hoping to achieve when you get the pan off?

We will try and help all we can.

Mart.

[DavidG]

I agree with John and Mart. If your sketches are even remotely accurate, those springs appear to be attached to the arms on the brake cross shaft to assist returning the front and rear brake rods to their "at rest" position so that the brake shoes don't drag on the drums. Perhaps the springs assist the original spring on the brake cross shaft itself or perhaps the original spring is broken and those two jury-rigged springs are a substitute.

The brake cross shaft (which is bolted to the back side of the center section of the center cross member), its arms, and the rods attached to it have nothing whatsoever to do with the car's steering. You may remove them and drop the front brake rods and the front axle wishbone attached to the bottom of the center of the center cross member without any effect on the car's steering.

Judging from your past posts, with all respect I agree with Mart that some homework on your part may be in order. At a minimum, the reprints of the 1933-'34 body parts catalogue and the 1928-34 chassis parts catalogue are inexpensive and contain a wealth of information, including illustrations of all of the parts under discussion in this thread. The service bulletin reprints are also useful as indicated elsewhere here, but the parts catalogues will give you a much better picture of what the car is made of in terms of detailing the various components and illustrating how they go together. Similarly, if your car has something that was added such as the springs in your sketches, you'll know from the catalogue illustrations in most instances that they weren't there when the car was built by Ford.

[jimTN]

sketch looks like the brake rods are confusing things and may have some antirattle springs on them. Take the end of the wishbone loose, there will be two bolts holding a cap over a ball covered with a rubber boot. It is as simpleas that. you will have to have some support under the cars frame on both sides in order to push the wishbone done when it is taken loose at the rear.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Mart

Ok, I THINK some previous owner has attached some springs to that area to help the brakes release. I THINK the rods that Frank says go to the steering are the brake rods.

Frank, get someone to operate the brake pedal and watch to see if the part the springs are attached to are moving.

I THINK you can detach the springs, lower the wishbone and remove the pan.

I have reservations, though, Frank, about your skill level (hope I'm wrong), no disrespect, but what are you hoping to achieve when you get the pan off?

We will try and help all we can.

Mart.

I just wanted to clean it out. The oil would not drain and the car was in storage for 20 years.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

My wishbone has springs tied around one edge with wire and the other side of the each of two springs linked to a rod for each wheel.... to give the sterring a firmness,, to hold its position i assume???

Frank you are working on things that could be potentially dangerous to yourself and others. If your mechanical knowledge is such that you do not know that those rods have nothing to do with steering and that Ford did not wire springs to things then you really should get some help from someone knowledge about these years of cars. This is not to criticize, everyone has to learn, but the parts of the car you are working on needs someone with this knowledge to help and oversee what is going on.

[FrankWest]

I was surprised when I dropped the pan that it would have restrictions.
I assumed it was like dropping the pan on a model A engine.
The problem was that I have a model A "B" engine in a 1933 ford so that it is a hybrid that most people on this forum seem to have little experience with like me.
I appreciate you help but I guess we are both confused.
Let me ask you this . Can the pan be directly be removed on the 1933 ford v8 or do you have to drop the wishbone steering support?

[deuce lover]

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The wishbone also has to be dropped on a V8 to remove the oil pan.You might also have to disconnect the brake rods (if you have mechanical brakes)or remove the brake rod guide that is on the wishbone .

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

The wishbone also has to be dropped on a V8 to remove the oil pan.You might also have to disconnect the brake rods (if you have mechanical brakes)or remove the brake rod guide that is on the wishbone .

thanks

[JSeery]

Yep, these years of cars are a whole different world than the modern cars! Sounds like you have brake rods that may or may not be in uses. As others have said it also sounds like someone has attached springs to the rods for who knows what reason. They may be to stop a rattle or to help retract the brake shoes or to hold the rods up if there not connected. One of the first things I would do is determine the type of brakes you have (mechanical or hydraulic). If they are mechanical and working, then the rods you are seeing are most likely the brake rods and the springs really shouldn't be there. Maybe the springs on the crossover shafts are broken and these springs are to make-up for it?

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by jimTN

sketch looks like the brake rods are confusing things and may have some antirattle springs on them. Take the end of the wishbone loose, there will be two bolts holding a cap over a ball covered with a rubber boot. It is as simpleas that. you will have to have some support under the cars frame on both sides in order to push the wishbone done when it is taken loose at the rear.

Presently the car is supported by 4 jack stands under each axil near each wheel. I should place two additional stands under the frame near the Y?
otherwise will the release of the Y at the will cause instability?

I have to purchase a set of bullitins. I have the owners manuals, restoration manual but need details.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Frank you are working on things that could be potentially dangerous to yourself and others. If your mechanical knowledge is such that you do not know that those rods have nothing to do with steering and that Ford did not wire springs to things then you really should get some help from someone knowledge about these years of cars. This is not to criticize, everyone has to learn, but the parts of the car you are working on needs someone with this knowledge to help and oversee what is going on.

I originally did not even want to drop the pan. But people on this forum kept saying you have to drop the pan... it is so easy even a novice could do it in a church parking lot!!!!!!!!
Now i am getting in deeper and deeper and you are saying too dangerious.
That is why I didn;t want to start taking things apart...because any jerk can take thing apart... but putting them back together right is the key!!!!

[Mart]

Frank, take the stands from under the front axle and put then under the frame.

Mart.

[FrankWest]

The extra springs I have are sketched in in yellow

There are 2 nuts with cotter pins, do these release the cap and then I can unscrew the Y

[colin1928]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I just wanted to clean it out. The oil would not drain and the car was in storage for 20 years.

It is not much more work to take out the engine then you can clean out the build up easy from everywhere do not forget inside the side cover and all the galleries

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

I originally did not even want to drop the pan. But people on this forum kept saying you have to drop the pan... it is so easy even a novice could do it in a church parking lot!!!!!!!!
Now i am getting in deeper and deeper and you are saying too dangerious.
That is why I didn;t want to start taking things apart...because any jerk can take thing apart... but putting them back together right is the key!!!!

That's funny and true at the same time Frank. It might be true for some people, but for most of us I think this is a moderately difficult job if you haven't worked on them before. It would be nice to see the inside of the engine and oil pan, but think I would try to run some type of solvent through the engine and drain through the oil pan first (like kerosene). But, the truth is I know almost nothing about this engine and possible issues with setting. You might consider a PM to someone like Walt or one of the other experienced engine builders on here and see if they have any inputs.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

The extra springs I have are sketched in in yellow

There are 2 nuts with cotter pins, do these release the cap and then I can unscrew the Y

Yes.

And those are the brake rods and the piece in the center is also part of the brakes. Someone would have added the springs, they would not be original.

When you undo the cap the radius rods (wishbone) can move down with some degree of force and the wheels and axle can move forward. As stated above, place the front jack stands under the frame to remove some of the weight off of the front axle.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Yep, these years of cars are a whole different world than the modern cars! Sounds like you have brake rods that may or may not be in uses. As others have said it also sounds like someone has attached springs to the rods for who knows what reason. They may be to stop a rattle or to help retract the brake shoes or to hold the rods up if there not connected. One of the first things I would do is determine the type of brakes you have (mechanical or hydraulic). If they are mechanical and working, then the rods you are seeing are most likely the brake rods and the springs really shouldn't be there. Maybe the springs on the crossover shafts are broken and these springs are to make-up for it?

Mechanical brakes

[deuce lover]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

The extra springs I have are sketched in in yellow

There are 2 nuts with cotter pins, do these release the cap and then I can unscrew the Y

Looks like what appears is the main spring that is on the brake cross shaft is broken.That might have been the reason for the springs that were added.You have more work cut out for you.The cross shaft should be removed and spring replaced.When the cross shaft is out check and see if the bushings and shaft are worn.If so they need to be replaced.Yes the wishbone cap is held on by the 2 bolts.Replace the rubber ball before reinstalling.In retrospect since you must disconnect the wishbone why not remove the front spring/axle assy and rebuild or replace the bushings-check the kingpins etc.

[1931 flamingo]

Frank: Where are you located.?? There may be a "barner" close by who might be willing to lend a hand.

Paul in CT

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

That's funny and true at the same time Frank. It might be true for some people, but for most of us I think this is a moderately difficult job if you haven't worked on them before. It would be nice to see the inside of the engine and oil pan, but think I would try to run some type of solvent through the engine and drain through the oil pan first (like kerosene). But, the truth is I know almost nothing about this engine and possible issues with setting. You might consider a PM to someone like Walt or one of the other experienced engine builders on here and see if they have any inputs.

True, I could fill the pan with solvent to dissolve the sediment

[jim1932]

The issue seams to be.... if i am reading correctly, you have a 4 cylinder in a 33 car? I do not know 33's. I did drop the pan on my 32 model B. It does hang up until you turn the wheel all the way to the left, which move the steering rods further out. It dropped on the floor when I moved the wheel.

You need people who know the 33. did it still come with a 4 banger?

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Frank: Where are you located.?? There may be a "barner" close by who might be willing to lend a hand.

Paul in CT

Pa, downingtown

I planned to check out and rebuild the breakes anyway before I operate the car.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by jim1932

The issue seams to be.... if i am reading correctly, you have a 4 cylinder in a 33 car? I do not know 33's. I did drop the pan on my 32 model B. It does hang up until you turn the wheel all the way to the left, which move the steering rods further out. It dropped on the floor when I moved the wheel.

You need people who know the 33. did it still come with a 4 banger?

Yes it came with a 4 banger all original

[jim1932]

I'm not an expert, but I would pull the non stock stuff, should drop out

[DavidG]

The four in a '33 is further back in the chassis relative to the V-8s location. As a result, you need to drop the back of the front axle wishbone to create enough room for the oil pan to clear the flywheel and then slid forward to "drop on the floor"

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Frank you are working on things that could be potentially dangerous to yourself and others. If your mechanical knowledge is such that you do not know that those rods have nothing to do with steering and that Ford did not wire springs to things then you really should get some help from someone knowledge about these years of cars. This is not to criticize, everyone has to learn, but the parts of the car you are working on needs someone with this knowledge to help and oversee what is going on.

Thanks,, I'll try not to hurt myself.
I guess I should not even try to change the oil on this car until I learn where every nut and bolt goes. I know enough not to just start taking things apart.....That would be dangerious! Thanks for nothing!

[FrankWest]

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Originally Posted by DavidG

The four in a '33 is further back in the chassis relative to the V-8s location. As a result, you need to drop the back of the front axle wishbone to create enough room for the oil pan to clear the flywheel and then slid forward to "drop on the floor"

Thanks for you help!

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Thanks,, I'll try not to hurt myself.
I guess I should not even try to change the oil on this car until I learn where every nut and bolt goes. I know enough not to just start taking things apart.....That would be dangerious! Thanks for nothing!

The intent was not to be critical Frank, there are lots of parts of the car that can be worked on with little concern. But when you attempt to work on the brake system parts or the main part of the front suspension without knowing a little bit about them I would proceed with a bit of caution. I'm sorry if that sounded harsh to you, that is not how it is meant. But the parts of the car you are working on can get you injured if you do not have a fair amounting of knowledge of what they are and what they do and what will move where when they are taken apart. An example would be the jack stands. Having the jack stands under the axle when the wishbone is disconnected could lead to disaster! You may be very knowledgeable working on a more modern car, but without a basic understand of the parts on your current car and how they work could get you hurt. Springs and other suspension parts contain a lot of energy and can be dangerous. Several people on the Barn have suggested it might be a good idea to seek help from someone who knows about these type of cars and I agree. If you still choose to go it alone, just be aware of the possibility of getting yourself injured if you do not understand the parts you are working with.

[FrankWest]

I had hoped to learn about each system of my car as I attempted to get it in orerating condition. Dropping the oil pan seemed straight forward as so many of ford barners said, without realizing my particular vehicle structure. I had planned to researh
My car is presently supported by 4 jack stands under each axil near the wheel, do I need additional support before releasing the Y bar? Should I place addition jack stand under the front frame?

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I don't usually like to make comments or judgements like this, BUT...I have to agree with all the posts that expressed concern about your ability to do this work yourself and your personal safety while trying to do this work. Then to come back with sarcastic remarks and in one post saying you were talked in to removing this oil pan by other members here, tells me you are unappreciative of the time and help folks here are trying to give you.

Listen......Excuse me for trying to learn about my car!

I was not able to learn everything before I began what was supposed to be a simple task according to the forum.
You should state a caution on this message board that only
Experts need ask questions! Everyone else stay away!!!

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Listen......Excuse me for trying to learn about my car!

I was not able to learn everything before I began what was supposed to be a simple task according to the forum.
You should state a caution on this message board that only
Experts need ask questions! Everyone else stay away!!!

I would suggest a good start would be to call parts by a name that is commonly used. I have never heard the term Y bar. It is a radius rod and sometimes called the wishbone or bones for short. This has been pointed out several times and yet you refer to is as a Y bar. If you are wanting to learn, that would be a start. The jack stand question has be addressed on this thread several times. You can not take the radius rod loose without jack stands under the FRAME and at least some of the weight off of the front axle.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

I don't usually like to make comments or judgements like this, BUT...I have to agree with all the posts that expressed concern about your ability to do this work yourself and your personal safety while trying to do this work. Then to come back with sarcastic remarks and in one post saying you were talked in to removing this oil pan by other members here tells me you are unappreciative of the time and help folks here are trying to give you.

You don;t like to make harsh comments, but you just had too, right!

[CC33]

Originally Posted by DavidG

The four in a '33 is further back in the chassis relative to the V-8s location. As a result, you need to drop the back of the front axle wishbone to create enough room for the oil pan to clear the flywheel and then slid forward to "drop on the floor"

Wow, that does sit tight to the firewall. Looks beautiful though, very nice detailing. Job well done!

[JSeery]

I think that it might be a good idea to close this thread as it appears to have turned hostile. It is to bad that some individuals do not seems to be interested in learning, but that appears to be the case.

[koates]

Hi Frank, Im just wondering if the pan really needs to be taken out. If the oil wont drain out and I presume oil is showing on the dip stick, then a piece of wire could be wiggled around in the pan drain hole to clear a path for it to drain. I would fill engine with some new oil and just get it started a see how she goes. You have a great original old ford so you could do just a bare minimum of repairs to just get it going at this stage to establish what is OK and what is not. Back in the day various aftermarket springs and kits were available and fitted to the four brake rods to stop them from rattling and making annoying noise. You could remove those springs and see what transpires. The underneath photo you posted is in a book and not of your car. The horizontal shaft shown which connects to the brake rod levers in that picture has the return spring wrapped around it for the brake rods. Just have a very close up look at that spring to check that it is not broken. If it is broken that could be another explanation why those two other springs were added to return the brake rods. When the brake pedal is depressed those four rods are PULLED to bring the brakes on, they are not Pushed. In the USA there were not very many four cylinder fords sold in 1933 & 1934. But other countries such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, South America, England sold many more by comparison. Your car is moderately rare today but that was not always the case. A few 33-34 4 cylinder cars exist today here in Australia. Keep plodding along Frank and you will learn along the way and get it done. Take tour time. Regards, Kevin.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by koates

Hi Frank, Im just wondering if the pan really needs to be taken out. If the oil wont drain out and I presume oil is showing on the dip stick, then a piece of wire could be wiggled around in the pan drain hole to clear a path for it to drain. I would fill engine with some new oil and just get it started a see how she goes. You have a great original old ford so you could do just a bare minimum of repairs to just get it going at this stage to establish what is OK and what is not. Back in the day various aftermarket springs and kits were available and fitted to the four brake rods to stop them from rattling and making annoying noise. You could remove those springs and see what transpires. The underneath photo you posted is in a book and not of your car. The horizontal shaft shown which connects to the brake rod levers in that picture has the return spring wrapped around it for the brake rods. Just have a very close up look at that spring to check that it is not broken. If it is broken that could be another explanation why those two other springs were added to return the brake rods. When the brake pedal is depressed those four rods are PULLED to bring the brakes on, they are not Pushed. In the USA there were not very many four cylinder fords sold in 1933 & 1934. But other countries such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, South America, England sold many more by comparison. Your car is moderately rare today but that was not always the case. A few 33-34 4 cylinder cars exist today here in Australia. Keep plodding along Frank and you will learn along the way and get it done. Take tour time. Regards, Kevin.

Thanks, great advice!
I am new to this so I didn't want to start taking thinks apart.
I have dropped the pan as far as it can go and were able to feel inside the pan and see that it is clean there. Under the pan bottom section is where there is some sludge. I will try to dissolve that kerosine and commerical degressers. Usually on this forum you get excellent advice, Unfortunately, there are some big mouths on here that expect everyone to be a seasoned mechanic, so I hope I don;t get in trouble for using a dergresser from my separtated oil pan... I will flush it out well with kerosine and Naptha after it is cleaned.

[1931 flamingo]

Frank: If the B pan is anything like an A pan, there's a windage tray (?) above the bottom of the pan. The A holds 1/2 to 1 qt of oil that doesn't get drained when the plug is removed. Depending on how you add the kerosene or whatever you plan to use some may get into this tray and remain there and when you add new oil it 's possible it will be thinned down. Not good.
Disconnect the "wishbone" (what you've been calling a Y), force it down and remove the pan and do it right. If not you're going to have fun trying to install new gaskets and probably end up with a leak. JMO FWIW

Paul in CT

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

The four in a '33 is further back in the chassis relative to the V-8s location. As a result, you need to drop the back of the front axle wishbone to create enough room for the oil pan to clear the flywheel and then slid forward to "drop on the floor"

When dropping the "wishbone" Where should I place my front jack stands?
I don;t want the car to fall.
I notice the cap to the wishbone has two nuts on each side that are secured with cotter pins.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Frank: If the B pan is anything like an A pan, there's a windage tray (?) above the bottom of the pan. The A holds 1/2 to 1 qt of oil that doesn't get drained when the plug is removed. Depending on how you add the kerosene or whatever you plan to use some may get into this tray and remain there and when you add new oil it 's possible it will be thinned down. Not good.
Disconnect the "wishbone" (what you've been calling a Y), force it down and remove the pan and do it right. If not you're going to have fun trying to install new gaskets and probably end up with a leak. JMO FWIW

Paul in CT

Here are photos of the model B oil pan.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by koates

Hi Frank, Im just wondering if the pan really needs to be taken out. If the oil wont drain out and I presume oil is showing on the dip stick, then a piece of wire could be wiggled around in the pan drain hole to clear a path for it to drain. I would fill engine with some new oil and just get it started a see how she goes. You have a great original old ford so you could do just a bare minimum of repairs to just get it going at this stage to establish what is OK and what is not. Back in the day various aftermarket springs and kits were available and fitted to the four brake rods to stop them from rattling and making annoying noise. You could remove those springs and see what transpires. The underneath photo you posted is in a book and not of your car. The horizontal shaft shown which connects to the brake rod levers in that picture has the return spring wrapped around it for the brake rods. Just have a very close up look at that spring to check that it is not broken. If it is broken that could be another explanation why those two other springs were added to return the brake rods. When the brake pedal is depressed those four rods are PULLED to bring the brakes on, they are not Pushed. In the USA there were not very many four cylinder fords sold in 1933 & 1934. But other countries such as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, South America, England sold many more by comparison. Your car is moderately rare today but that was not always the case. A few 33-34 4 cylinder cars exist today here in Australia. Keep plodding along Frank and you will learn along the way and get it done. Take tour time. Regards, Kevin.

Thanks for your help and kind words.
All I wanted to do was to make sure the oil would flow through my engine and oil pump. I did not want to start taking the car apart. I plan to learn about each system and the consider what needs to be done, if anything.
Personally some of the comments on this board have gotten me scared about loosing the wishbone. I done want the car to fall on me.
If i had to dismantle something to make clearance for the pan I would rather take of one end of the front end tie rod, at least here nothing will come crashing down on me. I purchased the book Ford V8 1932 to 1936 Engine & Chassis Repair Manual perhaps that will help.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Thanks for your help and kind words.
All I wanted to do was to make sure the oil would flow through my engine and oil pump. I did not want to start taking the car apart. I plan to learn about each system and the consider what needs to be done, if anything.
Personally some of the comments on this board have gotten me scared about loosing the wishbone. I done want the car to fall on me.
If i had to dismantle something to make clearance for the pan I would rather take of one end of the front end tie rod, at least here nothing will come crashing down on me. I purchased the book Ford V8 1932 to 1936 Engine & Chassis Repair Manual perhaps that will help.

I got the same book but for a36 but after I took the oil pan off my 36 pickup. fallow the directions in the book, it says don't skip steps and do them in order. it took me 3.5 hr to get the pan off and 2,5 to put it back on. I don't think it is good to use a solvent in side the motor, just my opinion. it will loosen up junk. also the sludge in side my oil pan was 1/2 in thick. nothing but a good scrub down with solvent would have cleaned it out. after you get put back together one of the best thing is to change the oil very frequently good luck...Brendan

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Brendan

I got the same book but for a36 but after I took the oil pan off my 36 pickup. fallow the directions in the book, it says don't skip steps and do them in order. it took me 3.5 hr to get the pan off and 2,5 to put it back on. I don't think it is good to use a solvent in side the motor, just my opinion. it will loosen up junk. also the sludge in side my oil pan was 1/2 in thick. nothing but a good scrub down with solvent would have cleaned it out. after you get put back together one of the best thing is to change the oil very frequently good luck...Brendan

Thanks for you info, you were a great help.
Did you have to detach the wishbone to get the pan to drop?

[DavidG]

Frank,

In your photos of a Model B pan, the tray mentioned in one of the posts is missing. You will burn out your rod bearings if you operate the engine without that tray in place. (The same tray was used in most Model A oil pans.) Perhaps you already know all that and if so, please excuse the overkill.

[rbullockv8]

Frank, the weight of the car pushes down on the front axle and tries to twist it forward at the bottom. This puts more tension on the ball end of the wishbone, making it want to go down so the axle can rotate out at the bottom. If you put your jack stands under the front frame (instead of the axle), this takes weight off the front axle and keeps the ball end of the wishbone from popping down with force when the bolts are removed.

As mentioned above, buy a new rubber ball to go over the wishbone steel ball when you reassemble. A little dish detergent on the rubber will help it slip on--it's a pretty tight fit.

You might have to use a small jack to help lift the wishbone ball back up into its socket when you get ready to reassemble the cap and bolts.

Since you're partway there, I think you have a good plan to clean out the oil pan. Since the B usually didn't have an oil filter, a lot of crud settles down there.

Finally, to everyone reading this thread: Time to take a chill pill. Emails, texts, and forums are TERRIBLE ways to communicate in that it's difficult to read emotion from bare words. Words come across as insulting when they aren't meant that way. And we should work hard not to get into a negative cycle of communications. Let's keep it positive, do our best to help each other, and quietly move on if we don't get along with someone.

Personally, I'm interested to see what's in the bottom of the oil pan. I just pulled a 12X12 inch shop rag out of my gas tank when I cleaned it. Who knows how long that's been in there! :-)

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by rbullockv8

Frank, the weight of the car pushes down on the front axle and tries to twist it forward at the bottom. This puts more tension on the ball end of the wishbone, making it want to go down so the axle can rotate out at the bottom. If you put your jack stands under the front frame (instead of the axle), this takes weight off the front axle and keeps the ball end of the wishbone from popping down with force when the bolts are removed.

As mentioned above, buy a new rubber ball to go over the wishbone steel ball when you reassemble. A little dish detergent on the rubber will help it slip on--it's a pretty tight fit.

You might have to use a small jack to help lift the wishbone ball back up into its socket when you get ready to reassemble the cap and bolts.

Since you're partway there, I think you have a good plan to clean out the oil pan. Since the B usually didn't have an oil filter, a lot of crud settles down there.

Finally, to everyone reading this thread: Time to take a chill pill. Emails, texts, and forums are TERRIBLE ways to communicate in that it's difficult to read emotion from bare words. Words come across as insulting when they aren't meant that way. And we should work hard not to get into a negative cycle of communications. Let's keep it positive, do our best to help each other, and quietly move on if we don't get along with someone.

Personally, I'm interested to see what's in the bottom of the oil pan. I just pulled a 12X12 inch shop rag out of my gas tank when I cleaned it. Who knows how long that's been in there! :-)

Thanks for thoughtful and sober words of wisdom
I will move my jack stand. I am a retired physicist, worked as a spacecraft power system engineer for Hughes Aircraft Company. But I am just learning about cars, so I appreciate the helpful people on this forum. I sent for the ford service manual for 1932 to 1940. I can learn as long as I have something to study, the last thing I want is a car falling on me.
So will the jack stand under the front frame the front end will just hang there, and when I remove the wishbone nuts, won't the weight of free dangling front end make it hard to lower the wishbone? I will try it and thanks a great deal for you assistance. This car means a lot to me.
Thanks again

[rbullockv8]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

So will the jack stand under the front frame the front end will just hang there, and when I remove the wishbone nuts, won't the weight of free dangling front end make it hard to lower the wishbone? I will try it and thanks a great deal for you assistance. This car means a lot to me.
Thanks again

I think the wishbone will still try to move lower. I bolted mine up recently with just the bare chassis (no engine or body), and the ball end hung down about 6-8". But, as you said, just play with the weight on the front axle/tires and see what works. At least with the jack stands in place you'll make it far less spring-loaded.

[jimTN]

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Frank, there is what we would consider a certain "responsibility of stewardship" in owning and operating an original early Ford. Any idiot can butcher one up to make one of those easter egg looking abominations you see at the car shows with garbage truck engines. This happens all too often and lots of rare cars are just cut up and never finished. You have a truly rare car being it is still in one piece and a 4cyl. I would suggest obtaining the following excellent references: EV8 club 34 book, 32-37 Ford service bulletins, The early v8 Ford as Henry Built It, Early v8 Ford Service Manual,(a Victor Page reprint by Clymer), an original 32-6 Ford Chassis Parts book (if you can find it), if not either an original or copy of the 28-48 Ford Chassis Parts Book know as the Green Bible. All of these will give you good illustrations of parts and good information. You will find a wealth of interchange info there also, some apparent (that would detract from the original appearance) and some not apparent. Good luck with your Ford!

[DavidG]

Jim,

With respect, I believe that he would benefit more from the '28-'34 chassis parts catalogue rather than the '28-'36 version given that he has a '33. The later the catalogue, the less it contains regarding the original production parts, especially for four bangers. Both turn up regurlarly on ebay. The 1948 parts catalogue is that much more diminished in value when addressing early fours and V-8s if the objective is maintaining originality given that it is a catalogue of service parts, not production parts.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

Thanks for you info, you were a great help.
Did you have to detach the wishbone to get the pan to drop?

yes I did , for a V8 I had to take off a lot of parts. I only had my car on 2 jack stands. and the ones in front where on the frame rail as close as I could get them you need to get the weight off the front end. also I had the front wheels off, loused the u bolts that hold the axle to the frame. then unbolted the wishbone, and pulled it down as far as I could. I wedge a 2buy 6 or a 2 buy 4 in between the wish bone and the frame. any time you put your car on jack stands shake it good, to make sure that it dose not fall. and be sure to have good quality stands...Brendan

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Brendan

yes I did , for a V8 I had to take off a lot of parts. I only had my car on 2 jack stands. and the ones in front where on the frame rail as close as I could get them you need to get the weight off the front end. also I had the front wheels off, loused the u bolts that hold the axle to the frame. then unbolted the wishbone, and pulled it down as far as I could. I wedge a 2buy 6 or a 2 buy 4 in between the wish bone and the frame. any time you put your car on jack stands shake it good, to make sure that it dose not fall. and be sure to have good quality stands...Brendan

I have some of these books and others being shipped.
I noticed that the wishbone and the front end tie rod are in the way of dropping the pan.
Can the pan be dropped by taking the tie rod off only for clearance?
This seems like a less problematic job than the wishbone!

[DavidG]

Frank,

Not likely as you have to drop the pan far enough down for the oil pump to be clear of the tray inside the oil pan and also to clear the bottom of the flywheel at the back of the pan. The tie rod interference can be eliminated by turning the steering wheel to either extreme which has the effect of moving the tie rod forward relative to the front of the oil pan.

[Mart]

Frank, you are possibly overthinking/overworrying the job.

Jack up under the axle, axle stands under the sides of the frame, release the axle so it's hanging (You could have it so the wheels are just touching the ground) , then undo the wishbone cup and lower the wishbone. You might have to either lever it down, or lower it using a jack.

The easiest way to get the drag link out of the way is to take out the splitpin and remove the end cap from one of the tie rod ends. this will allow the ball to drop out of the tie rod end. The other end could remain in place and be swivelled out of the way.

Have a new replacement ball to hand so you can fit it when the wishbone gets refitted.

You could have it all down, pan off, cleaned, refitted and the suspension all buttoned back up in an easy day.

You just need to get stuck in and have a go.

There's nothing that could happen that we could not explain how to get it right again.

Just make sure the stands are steady, like said, give the car a shake before going under it.

Mart.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Frank,

Not likely as you have to drop the pan far enough down for the oil pump to be clear of the tray inside the oil pan and also to clear the bottom of the flywheel at the back of the pan. The tie rod interference can be eliminated by turning the steering wheel to either extreme which has the effect of moving the tie rod forward relative to the front of the oil pan.

The wheels would have tio turn 90 degrees to get the bar fully out of the way!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Mart

Frank, you are possibly overthinking/overworrying the job.

Jack up under the axle, axle stands under the sides of the frame, release the axle so it's hanging (You could have it so the wheels are just touching the ground) , then undo the wishbone cup and lower the wishbone. You might have to either lever it down, or lower it using a jack.

The easiest way to get the drag link out of the way is to take out the splitpin and remove the end cap from one of the tie rod ends. this will allow the ball to drop out of the tie rod end. The other end could remain in place and be swivelled out of the way.

Have a new replacement ball to hand so you can fit it when the wishbone gets refitted.

You could have it all down, pan off, cleaned, refitted and the suspension all buttoned back up in an easy day.

You just need to get stuck in and have a go.

There's nothing that could happen that we could not explain how to get it right again.

Just make sure the stands are steady, like said, give the car a shake before going under it.

Mart.

Great info.....
Thanks

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Mart

Frank, you are possibly overthinking/overworrying the job.

Jack up under the axle, axle stands under the sides of the frame, release the axle so it's hanging (You could have it so the wheels are just touching the ground) , then undo the wishbone cup and lower the wishbone. You might have to either lever it down, or lower it using a jack.

The easiest way to get the drag link out of the way is to take out the splitpin and remove the end cap from one of the tie rod ends. this will allow the ball to drop out of the tie rod end. The other end could remain in place and be swivelled out of the way.

Have a new replacement ball to hand so you can fit it when the wishbone gets refitted.

You could have it all down, pan off, cleaned, refitted and the suspension all buttoned back up in an easy day.

You just need to get stuck in and have a go.

There's nothing that could happen that we could not explain how to get it right again.

Just make sure the stands are steady, like said, give the car a shake before going under it.

Mart.

Is that the Radius Rod Bushing "Rubber Ball"? you mentioned?
I think mine has never been replaced... original steel ball, I guess

[DavidG]

Frank,

You won't need to get the spindle tie rod completely out of the way, which is actually a good thing as unattaching the spindle tie rod on either end isn't usually quite as easy as described above. You might get lucky and be able to undo one of the tie rod end ball studs and move the tie rod out of the way. Based on my experience with a lot of them, even with the right puller those ball studs' tapered fit do not come free of the spindle end willingly. If you cannot remove one of the ball studs without destroying the threads, the other option is to remove the end plug as cited above. The problem with this alternative is that isn't enough clearance between the end plugs and the backing plates of the front brakes. That entails removing the one of the front backing plates. It's a classic example of what seems like a simple fifteen minute job that turns out to require three or four hours to accomplish, just like countless others when it comes to working on old cars.

Dropping the front axle wishbone at the center cross member and turning the wheels to their limit will get the job done.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Frank,

You won't need to get the spindle tie rod completely out of the way, which is actually a good thing as unattaching the spindle tie rod on either end isn't usually quite as easy as described above. You might get lucky and be able to undo one of the tie rod end ball studs and move the tie rod out of the way. Based on my experience with a lot of them, even with the right puller those ball studs' tapered fit do not come free of the spindle end willingly. If you cannot remove one of the ball studs without destroying the threads, the other option is to remove the end plug as cited above. The problem with this alternative is that isn't enough clearance between the end plugs and the backing plates of the front brakes. That entails removing the one of the front backing plates. It's a classic example of what seems like a simple fifteen minute job that turns out to require three or four hours to accomplish, just like countless others when it comes to working on old cars.

Dropping the front axle wishbone at the center cross member and turning the wheels to their limit will get the job done.

Thanks....
I am getting ready,,

I greatly appreciate you help... I will leave the tie rod alone....
Everything looks in great shape but I aggree with you taking it apart after 80 years anything can happen.

[FrankWest]

Thanks for everones help.
Got the wishbone done and the pan dropped. Did not need to remove the tie rods.

Thanks for all your help... I greatly appreciate it.

[DavidG]

Super!