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Old 04-02-2024, 11:04 AM   #81
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

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Ya got a good memory there Skip! Fortunately the chicken's home remained intact as I busted through the gate and fence on the right hand side of it. I have the brand new flexolite fan and aluminum radiator that met that day on a wall in my shop with a sign that says 'Have brakes'. The chicken house is an important social center here!
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Old 04-03-2024, 11:28 AM   #82
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Thank again Pete , and Al, thanks for the story. We know life changing things can go South in a split second.and I'm thankful that me and your kid sister were spared. I picked up the T5 and it looks great so far. It is somewhat unusual as it is clearly a 'world class' version from a '93 S10. The vast majority of the WC for a '93 S10 had the ford bolt pattern as did all the T5s after '93. The early '93s like this one were a mongrel that retained the muncie type chev pattern yet are WC. The 1st gear is the 4.03:1 and that works well for me. I use the low in my T-9s and the charts say the T-9 low gear ranges from 6.5:1 all the way to 9.6:1. I understand that 99% of all flathead enthusiasts will feel that a 'granny low' is horrible and useless in a hot rod, but I wouldn't know, having never ridden in or driven anything vaguely resembling a hot rod of any sort. In fact, to the best of my knowledge, I have never ridden in or driven a CAR with a flathead V8 in it. ( I did have a photo of my brother and I in the front yard with my dad when I was about 3, and there was a '46 ford coupe in the driveway, so it is likely that I'm exagerating). The trans had nice clean red fluid in it and the seller gave me the two piece driveline, shifter/boot, mount etc, so I'm good to go. I unloaded it at 5:30 am and commenced to clean the exterior and check it out. Now it's back to my regularly scheduled 'day job'. ick.
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Old 04-17-2024, 10:39 AM   #83
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Well, my T-5 is ready to install so my attention turns to assembly of the 8ba. I have decided on the 8rt camshaft. Les, the machinest told me he likes the ford valves and since I have so dang many of them, I should use all exhaust valves. I set up a mic as a go-no go gauge and got what I needed. I still didn't have enough of the hat shaped cup for the bottom of the spring for 'rotator' style assemblies. I have way more than enough of the cones that hold the keepers in.
Yesterday I noticed an 8ba block with the valves still in. I could make out the cone shaped piece through the ink black sludge, identifying this as a rotator set up. I pulled two assemblies out and found the 'hat' piece was different than what I'd been collecting, but the cone was the same. The first hat pieces are much taller and heavier, and I needed 8 more of them. Using the thinner/shorter hats I have an abundance of those. Is this thinner/lighter version acceptable and not just something a PO put together? I see the thick, deep ones in Ron's 'Nostalgia' book as refered to late'52-'53 style. Here are the two styles of 'Hat and Cone' rotator keepers I have uncovered so far, and of course this new 'mother lode' of assemblies will allow me to further hi-grade my valve train. Also note that the 'derby hat' style on the left and the 'stovepipe hat' on the right result in about the same installed spring height, but I haven't done a precise measurement yet.
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File Type: jpg keepers.jpg (102.3 KB, 261 views)
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Old 04-17-2024, 11:03 AM   #84
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

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Well, my T-5 is ready to install so my attention turns to assembly of the 8ba. I have decided on the 8rt camshaft. Les, the machinest told me he likes the ford valves and since I have so dang many of them, I should use all exhaust valves. I set up a mic as a go-no go gauge and got what I needed. I still didn't have enough of the hat shaped cup for the bottom of the spring for 'rotator' style assemblies. I have way more than enough of the cones that hold the keepers in.
Yesterday I noticed an 8ba block with the valves still in. I could make out the cone shaped piece through the ink black sludge, identifying this as a rotator set up. I pulled two assemblies out and found the 'hat' piece was different than what I'd been collecting, but the cone was the same. The first hat pieces are much taller and heavier, and I needed 8 more of them. Using the thinner/shorter hats I have an abundance of those. Is this thinner/lighter version acceptable and not just something a PO put together? I see the thick, deep ones in Ron's 'Nostalgia' book as refered to late'52-'53 style. Here are the two styles of 'Hat and Cone' rotator keepers I have uncovered so far, and of course this new 'mother lode' of assemblies will allow me to further hi-grade my valve train. Also note that the 'derby hat' style on the left and the 'stovepipe hat' on the right result in about the same installed spring height, but I haven't done a precise measurement yet.
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"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
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Old 04-17-2024, 09:02 PM   #85
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

The ones on the left is what i am familiar with. Don't think I've ever run across the ones on the right in all of the engines I have disassembled.
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Old 04-17-2024, 11:22 PM   #86
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The ones on the left is what i am familiar with. Don't think I've ever run across the ones on the right in all of the engines I have disassembled.
Thanks Jack, That's exactly what I needed to know. I have lots of those and can now cross them off my list. Next I am looking at guides and lifters. I just ran another batch of ford lifters through a carb dip bath. They vary somewhat in height. What strikes me about the 50 or so used factory lifters I have looked at so far is the bottoms all look excellent to the eye. Light swirly pattern if any, nothing that looks like wear or a dish. They are obviously extremely hard. Tops like new also. Some scuffing on sides, but like the bottoms, just a visual. Nothing you can feel with a fingernail. My ford service repair manual says to replace them if they measure less than.998 dia or 1.710 in height. Book is from 1947. so this may have changed with 8ba.
My thought here is a carefully measured original ford part that is still in good condition is most likely a better piece than something made for the lowest price possible from unknown materials. Thoughts on checking lifters? Thanks, GB
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Old 04-18-2024, 05:30 PM   #87
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Can you measure the lobes of your new cam to see if they are ground with any taper? I'd be interested to know, and it'll make a difference on how you proceed with lifter inspection.
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Old 04-18-2024, 09:02 PM   #88
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Lifters did change from 1947 to 8BA.
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Old 04-19-2024, 08:26 AM   #89
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Thank you friends, and as usual, new questions arise.... So sometimes cam lobes are tapered to get the lifter rotating? In other words there are cams made specifically for rotator assemblies? My cam is in the block while I play with lifters etc, but will check that over the weekend. I am seeing a potential problem in that with these new seats it's hard to find enough good exhaust valves that are long enough with stems having been ground. I have some with nice thick heads that I can bring down a bit, almost like adjusting the gap from the opposite end. I will assume that my stash of 'tallest' lifters would be a mix of early and late lifters. And lastly for this morning, if I were to use intake valves for intake valves, this would add maybe 30 new candidates to my stash. Not good because of unleaded fuel?
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Old 04-19-2024, 05:53 PM   #90
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Lots of flatheads running intake valves for intake valves and working just fine. I wouldn't hesitate.
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Old 04-20-2024, 12:06 AM   #91
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Thanks 312, That should help a lot. I got a chance to pull a few more valves outa the sludge pot, so I'll take count of what I have over the weekend. I guess at this point I need to know for certain what my valve lash needs to be set at. The larger later setting or the earlier? This is with the 8rt cam and rotator valves. Without knowing this I cannot choose what combination of valves and lifters can be used. Once lash is known I will be able to determine if I can adjust lash the old fashioned way or if I need to dig into my 2 sets of Johnsons. I'll do my research tonight and since I'm finally outa the damn woodshop tomorrow I can get greasy and finish measuring up all my valve gear. Edit: Having just returned from some late night measuring I am greatly encouraged by valve stem length and lifter height. .
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Old 04-20-2024, 05:06 AM   #92
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Excellent progress, GB.
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Old 04-20-2024, 09:21 AM   #93
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

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Excellent progress, GB.
Ya...no kidding...now that I’m on “retirement time”, more projects pop up than ever before....GB is making me feel like a real slacker in the Old Ford Project Dept........Mark
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Old 04-20-2024, 06:39 PM   #94
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Well today you guys had a chance to catch up with me. Started today mitering window stops on an entry door I'm building, then cabled up a lilac tree that has been splaying out and confounding the lawn mowing, then it was replace a couple boards in the deck.... "Ah c'mon honey, those boards still have a good couple a months left in 'em." All good, it's an hour before dinner (Mark, that's suppah) so I'm gonna go mic my newest crop of exhaust valves and lifters that I mined in the LaBrea engine valley. I'm developing a test for guides, but welcome any input with cleaning the bore and testing.
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Old 04-21-2024, 12:45 AM   #95
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

I can relate. Theres a Lilac planted in the wrong place here by the chief gardener, that is now a pain to mow around, and several others that have completely blocked the road for mowing. "Its Ok, I'll trim in that spot" I hear, but no, its a jungle in those areas. And...I'm having suppah now.

Back to motors, you should be able to use the pilots from your valve grinder rig to check "wiggle" with a dial indicator , and compare the results against one of your good valves to see whats wore. But, you know that...carry on
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Old 04-21-2024, 07:06 AM   #96
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Looks like it’s Lilac maintenance time on both sides of the country....and in the middle......the last storm we had broke off the branches that used to pull my hat and glasses off....got a white one that’s to tall and coming out of the ground because of the last storm also.....(back to motors)....gotta change the oil and grease the ‘50...the Maine Model A club is having their spring dust off Sat at The Bean Farm, Sanbornville NH....lots of old Fords and a good lunch.....Mark
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Old 04-21-2024, 10:05 PM   #97
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I took a corner brace I had, and welded an eye onto it and lagged it onto my house so I'd have something to attach the nearly horizontal lilac to. That's the steel cable up high under the eaves right next to 2014's Christmas lights....
And Skip I did not think about the variety of pilots in my seat grinder. I started this afternoon with 44 valve guides, all cleaned and reamed out real good with a stiff rifle type brush. While sliding them on and off some valves I found I had a stem with a slight bend. The guide would go about half way up the stem and stop. The tip of the valve stopped about 1/4" from coming through yhe guide. Rotating the guide, it stayed the same 1/4". I tried another cleaned guide and it stopped 3/8" from coming through. Some left 1/8", a few went neatly past the bend and up to the head. I then ran all 44 through from the opposite end of the guide with pretty much exact results. Once again rotating didn't change things. I painted the bent valve's head yellow to avoid a mixup.
With this method it was easy to arrange them in rows left to right with the least worn on the left. By process of elimination I sorted out the best 20 as keepers. The majority show 3/8"-5/16" short of coming through. . None of 'the chosen' show any wiggle that I can . Tomorrow I'll get out my pilots and run a test with the dial indicator just because I get what Skip had in mind now.....
I also now have seven more exhaust valves, guides and springs to through in the mix from the sludge mine. I'm having fun high grading my valve gear..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg lilac.jpg (185.6 KB, 162 views)
File Type: jpg guides la brea.jpg (135.5 KB, 158 views)
File Type: jpg guides lifters.jpg (108.3 KB, 159 views)
File Type: jpg guides lifters 3.jpg (88.6 KB, 161 views)
File Type: jpg guides x valves.jpg (136.2 KB, 161 views)
File Type: jpg Guides 1.jpg (129.1 KB, 160 views)
File Type: jpg guides 2.jpg (151.5 KB, 156 views)
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Old 04-21-2024, 10:14 PM   #98
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I took a corner brace I had, and welded an eye onto it and lagged it onto my house so I'd have something to attach the nearly horizontal lilac to. That's the steel cable up high under the eaves right next to 2014's Christmas lights....
And Skip I did not think about the variety of pilots in my seat grinder. I started this afternoon with 44 valve guides, all cleaned and reamed out real good with a stiff rifle type brush. While sliding them on and off some valves I found I had a stem with a slight bend. The guide would go about half way up the stem and stop. The tip of the valve stopped about 1/4" from coming through yhe guide. Rotating the guide, it stayed the same 1/4". I tried another cleaned guide and it stopped 3/8" from coming through. Some left 1/8", a few went neatly past the bend and up to the head. I then ran all 44 through from the opposite end of the guide with pretty much exact results. Once again rotating didn't change things. I painted the bent valve's head yellow to avoid a mixup.
With this method it was easy to arrange them in rows left to right with the least worn on the left. By process of elimination I sorted out the best 20 as keepers. The majority show 3/8"-5/16" short of coming through. . None of 'the chosen' show any wiggle that I can . Tomorrow I'll get out my pilots and run a test with the dial indicator just because I get what Skip had in mind now.....
I also now have seven more exhaust valves, guides and springs to through in the mix from the sludge mine. I'm having fun high grading my valve gear..












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The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

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"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0
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Old 04-22-2024, 01:30 AM   #99
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Thank you once again Pete! In the 2nd to last photo, the group of guides on the right are the 20 semi-finalists. After the post above I went to youtube and found a couple of guys measuring stems and guides and now I see a split guide tester (very cool). I also see the dial indicator test as described by Skip.
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Old 04-22-2024, 08:54 PM   #100
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Default Re: 276 stroker from 35 years of parts

Since you're putting a new cam in the engine, you should consider having the bottoms of the lifters resurfaced as well. Pete on here can do that for you - I highly recommend having it done (is not that expensive and if it helps the cam live a longer life, it is a good thing).
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