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Old 04-19-2019, 03:02 PM   #21
Ol' Ron
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

I want to thank everybody for responding to this thread. Be nice to know what was in the engine to produce this much power. I don't think carbs alone could do it.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

It appears Don “Sully” Sullivan aka Henry’s Wild Irishman had a lot to do with those intake manifolds.

This article taken from the website “Hot Rods of Dearborn”








| Home | The Untold Stories | The New Traditionalist | The Famous Rods |
In 1947 this was truly a backyard hot rod because the car was built without the shelter of a garage. Much was started in the basement and then brought outside for assembly in a tent…during the winter! The story goes, young Don Sullivan needed transportation, so his Father (Ford’s legendary horsepower wizard Don ‘Sully’ Sullivan) informed his son if he wanted an automobile he would have to build it himself. So, with the help of the whole family and curious neighbors, the project began.

The roadster has a ’35 Ford frame and suspension with a completely hand-built body with two cockpits. The back of the car features two ’40 Ford front hoods joined together to create a boat tail back end. Of course, it ran a Ford flathead V-8 with Hotton & Sullivan heads and the Don ‘Sully’ Sullivan dual carb Hexagon intake manifold.

Young Don Sullivan used this car for his main transportation for a number of years, diving year round with fenders and side curtains. He drove back and forth from Dearborn to Albion College on a regular basis. The car was later sold and the whereabouts are unknown.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

In John Lawson's book "Flathead facts" He modified a stock 239 ci engine with every bolt on intake and carburetor available. Every cylinder head, and every ignition system. and still couldn't produce 100 HP. How ever the addition of a mild Max #1 cam did the trick. And the 221 is abit smaller.
Like I said, be nice to know what was in those engines.?????
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
In John Lawson's book "Flathead facts" He modified a stock 239 ci engine with every bolt on intake and carburetor available. Every cylinder head, and every ignition system. and still couldn't produce 100 HP. How ever the addition of a mild Max #1 cam did the trick. And the 221 is abit smaller.
Like I said, be nice to know what was in those engines.?????
How much torque were these engines producing and what rpm range did they run in? It’d be interesting to know those figures.

As a side note I believe those Novi V8’s that were mentioned earlier were actually 3 main bearing engines. I know there was a lot of Offenhauser in those Novi’s but I could have sworn there was some Ford dimensions or bolt patterns in them as well. I think I remember reading something about that long ago.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

Lew Welch was the money man behind the Novi and he called out some of the specs for the bottom end. He wanted the three main crank and also the rod and main journals the same as Ford dimensions. Welch was a factory authorized engine rebuilder for Ford and I guess that influenced his decisions. Bud Winfield got involved early on, as did Leo Goossen who had been both Harry Miller’s and Fred Offenhauser’s draftsman so naturally there was some Offenhauser influence to the design. No doubt Bud called on his brother to engineer the camshafts.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:37 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

The 3 main bearing crankshafts balance better than a 5. Not sure why this is. I was told that on a 5 main crank, you can't put the metal where it does the most good?? AS for the engines in the Indy Fords, the builders had allot of money to spend on this project, so I doubt they were wormed over stockers.
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Old 04-20-2019, 12:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

Does anyone know what the waterpump setup is on these? I've never seen a photo that shows one.

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Old 04-20-2019, 04:57 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

The water pump was driven off the camshaft where the distributor normally resided and there was a cockpit mounted magneto that had a right angle drive and cable coming off the nose of the crank. Harry Miller built some of his cars with the mag in the cockpit for adjusting the timing while under way. The heads were reversed with outlets to the radiator hoses connected via special castings.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:45 AM   #29
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

Congrats on another year, Ron.

Did you see this?

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2016/0...-v-8-indy-car/

How about this?


Here you can see the unusual (and problematical) steering setup:


Front suspension:


Note heat protective wrap on the manifold:


Mart.

Last edited by Mart; 04-23-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:26 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

I wonder if Ford did or didn’t have a “skunkworks” type of operation in place that may have helped in certain ways with things like combustion chamber design or those exquisite exhaust manifolds etc.

I know Henry was keen to the idea that racing improves the breed. This would have been the ultimate racing project in 1935.
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:08 PM   #31
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

I may have missed this, but, is there any information on how many laps they ran, befor the steering gave out??
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:45 PM   #32
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

Ron, Here are your answers (taken from a race summary in Motors)

# 43 Ted Horn Out at lap 145
# 42 Johnny Seymour Out at lap 71
# 35 George Bailey Out at lap 65
# 46 Bob Sall Out at lap 47
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

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Originally Posted by Don Rogers View Post
Ron, Here are your answers (taken from a race summary in Motors)

# 43 Ted Horn Out at lap 145
# 42 Johnny Seymour Out at lap 71
# 35 George Bailey Out at lap 65
# 46 Bob Sall Out at lap 47
Are these all departures due to failed steering gears?
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:31 PM   #34
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

There is one of these at the HF and back in the 80's I visited there and was allowed to raise the hood and take pics. Have no idea where they are now.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:34 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

That's allot of Laps, at over 100 MPH. Guess those flathead had some stamina
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

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Are these all departures due to failed steering gears?
Three were from steering failures.

Semore in the 42 car went out with a grease leak. I'd bet it was a steering gear "grease leak".
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

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Originally Posted by Flathead Fever View Post
There is only a handful of Ed Winfield photos. He was a pretty stealthy and secretive guy.
Kong, Ed Winfield and me in 1976 outside Ed's house in Vegas. It was fun looking through his photo album.



That was my "B" motor with a Cook four port. Notice the one of a kind Kong ignition with the olds four banger dist cap. Had two Winfield downdrafts on the other side That roadster pickup was a runner. They cannot help but run with me getting advice from Wess Cooper and Kong Jackson

Here is a good read on Ed https://www.nwvs.org/Technical/2104EdWinfield.pdf
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:36 PM   #38
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Rogers View Post
Ron, Here are your answers (taken from a race summary in Motors)

# 43 Ted Horn Out at lap 145 Start Mid 9th row, finish 16th

# 42 Johnny Seymour Out at lap 71 Start 9th row

# 35 George Bailey Out at lap 65 Start 10th row

# 46 Bob Sall Out at lap 47 Start 33rd/last
Thanks for the info Don. I added in red, some details from the V-8 Times March-April 1985.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:07 PM   #39
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

Love those pict. Those exhaust manifolds look cast. Quite beautifully done.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:09 PM   #40
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Default Re: Ford ran 2/3 cars at the 1035 Indy 500?

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Originally Posted by qmdv View Post
Kong, Ed Winfield and me in 1976 outside Ed's house in Vegas. It was fun looking through his photo album.



That was my "B" motor with a Cook four port. Notice the one of a kind Kong ignition with the olds four banger dist cap. Had two Winfield downdrafts on the other side That roadster pickup was a runner. They cannot help but run with me getting advice from Wess Cooper and Kong Jackson

Here is a good read on Ed https://www.nwvs.org/Technical/2104EdWinfield.pdf

I've always loved this picture. So great. I bet that motor was a runner.

When I in my '20's, I called and spoke to both Kong and Navarro. I was just a dumb kid and didn't realize the magnitude of the gentlemen I was speaking to. I wish I could go back in time and talk to them again and the questions I would ask them now.
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