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Old 05-09-2020, 03:06 PM   #1
Phil Gillespie
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Default 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

So after the " hicup with damaged engine, broken con rod etc" am now going down this path . Would value any comments and suggestions.
Have purchased this engine which has just been built up.
Plan on checking piston to head clearance to get that 40 to 50 thou clearance
piston to head. Its fitted with Ross flatop pistons soo??
Also fitted with 4 barrel intake with a Carter carb, my experience with these is zero. Also will be changing from 6v to 12v and removing the C4 bits and pieces and staying with original gearbox. Wil be going into 46 Merc Coupe.l
Heres the details of engine:

Rebuilt ford flathead v8.59a
3-5/16" bore plus 30 thou.

scat Rotating Assembly, 286 C.I.
4.125" Engine Stroke, H-Beam Connecting Rod Type, ross Flat Top racing Pistons

complete motor re-sleeve bored and fitted with flathead stroker kit rotating assemblies feature new Scat crankshafts, new Scat H-beam connecting rods with 2" journals, premium forged three-ring pistons, rod bearings, and piston rings. The components are balanced. the crank has a center Main Cap Support

fitted with a 5t cam pushing Isky Racing Adjustable Flathead Ford Lifters and Hi-grade 21 - 4N stainless steel exhaust/inlet valves, Each valve is .060 oversize. exhausts are coated zoomie style and sound awesome

Melling M-15 High Volume oil pump delivering 45psi

8ba waterpumps with a 8ba timing cover and machined Chevy HEI Distributor.

topped off with a Speedway Single Plane 4 barrel intake manifold and a Cartier performance race carb and a new Powermaster old-style alternator. the engine is started with a Powermaster V8 Gear Reduction Starter.

the heads are new Edelbrocks and feature a block logo and are cast at the Edelbrock Foundry in the USA of T-6 tempered A356 aluminum. The Edelbrock heads are rugged, ribbed internally and externally, with a large water capacity and excellent breathing characteristics. 74 cc.

this is a brand new engine and will have to be run in and the heads will need re torqueing after running/cooling down.

the trans is a c4 and has been rebuilt and shift kitted. it has a new torque convertor.

On another note any experience here with Demon carbs as understand the newer versions, 4 barrel have similar but updated tech as was in Carter carbs.

Demon 1900 625 CFM Street Demon Carburetor is the carb I am considering.

Thanks,
Phil NZ

Last edited by Phil Gillespie; 05-09-2020 at 09:31 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:40 PM   #2
KiWinUS
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Phil I can smell serious $$ here. I think there are better options to build a stroker flathead for less $. If you want I can pm with my suggestions. If already purchased just enjoy.
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Old 05-09-2020, 03:46 PM   #3
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

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Originally Posted by KiWinUS View Post
Phil I can smell serious $$ here. I think there are better options to build a stroker flathead for less $. If you want I can pm with my suggestions. If already purchased just enjoy.
I've already pulled the trigger on this one. Should be on the way from NI soon.
Getting the bits now for the 12v change over at present.
Phil NZ
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Old 05-09-2020, 04:14 PM   #4
KiWinUS
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Not sure exactly what carb but the early carters built correctly are amazing. A lot of engine to keep that cam. Be sure the distributor has advance to suit a flathead & you will be over the top happy.
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Old 05-09-2020, 04:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Charlie NY can tune that carb to perfection. I am not a fan of the Melling M-15 oil pump. The 5-T cam is a stock 59AB cam unless it has been reground. Also I the manifold is a dual plane which is what you want. I think 625 cfm is a little large for that engine.
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Old 05-09-2020, 04:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Take care with sealing up head gaskets; looks like a bit of damage to the deck top corner above #5
Flattop pistons-domed heads
Has it been balanced?
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Last edited by Brian; 05-09-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 05-09-2020, 09:43 PM   #7
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
Take care with sealing up head gaskets; looks like a bit of damage to the deck top corner above #5
Flattop pistons-domed heads
Has it been balanced?
Ah ha so you know where it came from?
The flattop piston with domed heads different!!
Thats why I'll carefully check clearances piston to head and adjust as required.
Been balanced and noted that deck area also.

1316901145.jpg

1316901706.jpg

Phil NZ
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Old 05-09-2020, 10:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

We have a similar motor in our 32 , 4.125 and 3 5/16 bore. We changed from Navarro heads to edelbrock to get a better compression ratio for the bigger motor. Still running 2 97 carbs and an early 8BA mallory with tach drive. We chose a relatively mild Isky 1007B cam . Still has a lopey idle . But my engine guy is super fussy setting things up . Everything flowed and triple checked .It has bunches of torque , great fun on the hills. It would give a small block a fright. I thing you need a bigger cam than the stock 5T to make use of the other components in the package.
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Old 05-09-2020, 11:35 PM   #9
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

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Originally Posted by my4dv8 View Post
We have a similar motor in our 32 , 4.125 and 3 5/16 bore. We changed from Navarro heads to edelbrock to get a better compression ratio for the bigger motor. Still running 2 97 carbs and an early 8BA mallory with tach drive. We chose a relatively mild Isky 1007B cam . Still has a lopey idle . But my engine guy is super fussy setting things up . Everything flowed and triple checked .It has bunches of torque , great fun on the hills. It would give a small block a fright. I thing you need a bigger cam than the stock 5T to make use of the other components in the package.
I plan to get it, check out a couple of things, Check and set up timing and see how it goes. I plan on just running an electric fan and wonder what diameter and flow capacity I should look at. Front end of Merc there is a ton of room here.
Phil NZ
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Old 05-10-2020, 07:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

So you're saying it has flat top pistons and regular domed shaped combustion chambers in the heads? This makes no sense at all to me. To be blunt, I have no clue as to what somebody was thinking as Ford never built an engine with domed heads and flattop pistons - it is a complete miss-match of combustion chamber designs.

Two issues right off the bat: 1) The compression will be dropped a bunch - and you really want compression as flatheads don't have much to start with. 2) There is effectively no "quench" area in the head - which is super important for a flathead.

To me, if I purchased this engine, I'd put the correct pistons in it - would not even waste my time running it and polishing down the bores. You can probably even get pistons and use the same rings you already have. The engine would most likely need to be re-balanced (I would do this).

The engine has a lot of expensive parts in it - why not make sure it has a chance to run as it should? With the correct pistons and a tight .040 to .045 quench, it would be a really nice running engine.

You asked for perspectives . . . hope I didn't pee in your coffee too much.
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Old 05-10-2020, 08:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Gillespie View Post
So after the " hicup with damaged engine, broken con rod etc" am now going down this path . Would value any comments and suggestions.
Have purchased this engine which has just been built up.
Plan on checking piston to head clearance to get that 40 to 50 thou clearance
piston to head. Its fitted with Ross flatop pistons soo??
Also fitted with 4 barrel intake with a Carter carb, my experience with these is zero. Also will be changing from 6v to 12v and removing the C4 bits and pieces and staying with original gearbox. Wil be going into 46 Merc Coupe.l
Heres the details of engine:

Rebuilt ford flathead v8.59a
3-5/16" bore plus 30 thou.

scat Rotating Assembly, 286 C.I.
4.125" Engine Stroke, H-Beam Connecting Rod Type, ross Flat Top racing Pistons

complete motor re-sleeve bored and fitted with flathead stroker kit rotating assemblies feature new Scat crankshafts, new Scat H-beam connecting rods with 2" journals, premium forged three-ring pistons, rod bearings, and piston rings. The components are balanced. the crank has a center Main Cap Support

fitted with a 5t cam pushing Isky Racing Adjustable Flathead Ford Lifters and Hi-grade 21 - 4N stainless steel exhaust/inlet valves, Each valve is .060 oversize. exhausts are coated zoomie style and sound awesome

Melling M-15 High Volume oil pump delivering 45psi

8ba waterpumps with a 8ba timing cover and machined Chevy HEI Distributor.

topped off with a Speedway Single Plane 4 barrel intake manifold and a Cartier performance race carb and a new Powermaster old-style alternator. the engine is started with a Powermaster V8 Gear Reduction Starter.

the heads are new Edelbrocks and feature a block logo and are cast at the Edelbrock Foundry in the USA of T-6 tempered A356 aluminum. The Edelbrock heads are rugged, ribbed internally and externally, with a large water capacity and excellent breathing characteristics. 74 cc.

this is a brand new engine and will have to be run in and the heads will need re torqueing after running/cooling down.

the trans is a c4 and has been rebuilt and shift kitted. it has a new torque convertor.

On another note any experience here with Demon carbs as understand the newer versions, 4 barrel have similar but updated tech as was in Carter carbs.

Demon 1900 625 CFM Street Demon Carburetor is the carb I am considering.

Thanks,
Phil NZ
Hi Phil, just got a PM from "Kev" in Germany, same exact Scat crank as your's and his rod brg clearance is over .003", close to .0035".

He asked me for a "fix", seems Scat is making their rod journals 1.999" which gives you too much clearance on the rods. I recommended to him to try to locate some .001" under rod brgs, it would help!

You may be good, but I would check this item first before going any further!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This is one reason we refuse to use the Scat FH cranks, there are a few others also! We strictly use the Eagle line on the FH's!

Last edited by GOSFAST; 05-10-2020 at 08:20 AM. Reason: C
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Old 05-10-2020, 08:46 AM   #12
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

I’m stratching my head on the use of flattop pistons. If Ross, I believe they would have been custom made for their “stock” line have a dome to them. What was the thinking on this build? Really curious
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Holy Flathead: From the conversation above it looks like a lot of dough was spent on parts that don't provide optimal performance but, sound good when listing an engine for sale.

Hope it's not, "All show and no go" but sounds good when "bench racing".
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Old 05-10-2020, 01:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

It's called a "learning experience". Or never make a modification, without a reason. You have allot of information here by guys the "KNOW". If the bore is 3 5/16 plus .030', Must be a reason, odd size ????
Good luck
Gramps
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Old 05-10-2020, 01:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Maybe I'm wrong, but looking closely at the pic without the head those pistons look like they are domed by the way the light reflection bends. I'd pull a head and have a look for sure (the OP says that's the plan anyway). Maybe by "flat tops" the seller meant "no valve reliefs" as is common when referencing some ohv stuff. Maybe all is well after all!
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Old 05-10-2020, 03:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

I built my flathead with the 286" Scat rotating assembly three years ago, and the pistons were domed. I can't believe Scat would switch to flat pistons. I agree that you could certainly benefit from a little more cam. I am running the Schneider 248f, which has a bunch of lift and little more duration. The idle is pretty smooth and performance is very manageable in traffic, and that is with 3.25 rear end gears. That said, it will snap your neck when you open it up in second gear.

Warning on that Powermaster alternator. It is a little Japanese alternator stuffed into that look alike case. Mind did not last 2000 miles. The good news is that an old school alternator shop can replace the guts for less than $200.
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:07 PM   #17
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
So you're saying it has flat top pistons and regular domed shaped combustion chambers in the heads? This makes no sense at all to me. To be blunt, I have no clue as to what somebody was thinking as Ford never built an engine with domed heads and flattop pistons - it is a complete miss-match of combustion chamber designs.

Two issues right off the bat: 1) The compression will be dropped a bunch - and you really want compression as flatheads don't have much to start with. 2) There is effectively no "quench" area in the head - which is super important for a flathead.

To me, if I purchased this engine, I'd put the correct pistons in it - would not even waste my time running it and polishing down the bores. You can probably even get pistons and use the same rings you already have. The engine would most likely need to be re-balanced (I would do this).

The engine has a lot of expensive parts in it - why not make sure it has a chance to run as it should? With the correct pistons and a tight .040 to .045 quench, it would be a really nice running engine.

You asked for perspectives . . . hope I didn't pee in your coffee too much.
Nope wont do that. I more or less suspected as much.
And your comments are very valid .
Yep the best way forward another set of correct domed pistons and should get by with same rings.
Thanks,
Phil NZ
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:09 PM   #18
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
Hi Phil, just got a PM from "Kev" in Germany, same exact Scat crank as your's and his rod brg clearance is over .003", close to .0035".

He asked me for a "fix", seems Scat is making their rod journals 1.999" which gives you too much clearance on the rods. I recommended to him to try to locate some .001" under rod brgs, it would help!

You may be good, but I would check this item first before going any further!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This is one reason we refuse to use the Scat FH cranks, there are a few others also! We strictly use the Eagle line on the FH's!
Gary thanks so much for your input. Will check this out also.
Phil NZ
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:16 PM   #19
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

I'm hoping they are flatop pistons. But will see. I'm very apprecative of all comments for sure. I will be looking at all suggestions and assistance offered for sure. And it will be sorted for best running output.
Phil NZ
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:19 PM   #20
Phil Gillespie
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Default Re: 59a with Scat Set Up Your thoughts please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
It's called a "learning experience". Or never make a modification, without a reason. You have allot of information here by guys the "KNOW". If the bore is 3 5/16 plus .030', Must be a reason, odd size ????
Good luck
Gramps
Yes a previous build it was bored at all cylinders and all are sleeved.
I believe the plus 30 to have been a clean up.
Really appreciate your comments and advice from "the master builder".
Phil NZ
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