276 stroker from 35 years of parts

[Bored&Stroked]

The block has been decked - as having the piston a bit above the deck is not a bad thing - as it helps tighten up the quench without having to mill the heads a bunch. If you think about it, you have a .052 or so head gasket (when torqued down) - which puts the head profile that much higher than the piston. So, having the piston a bit above the deck brings it a bit closer to the chamber top. Of course, it all depends on your specific combination of parts - but I think he is going to be just fine!

Note: When I'm building a custom performance engine, I have whatever deck and main saddle work done first, then I put the crank and rod in the engine and exactly determine what my compression height needs to be for my given combination (heads, pistons, gaskets, etc).

Then I order the pistons from Ross with my specified compression height (which tells them where I want the pin). This gets me exactly the quench that I want. There is just a minimal upcharge from Ross to do this - so it is worth the extra time/effort to get it exactly right.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Les the machinest told me he took a very small amount off the decks to clean them up. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would angle mill the block without mentioning it to me. Been working on accessories today. I'm going to re-gasket and install new lockwashers on my chosen oil pump tomorrow, but I have to play a bit of catch-up in the woodshop too.

Judging by how much of the "eyebrow" under the valve is still present, I would agree that it was a minimal cut.

[GB SISSON]

As if I needed more drama, I will present something that hasn't been brought up yet. In post 246 I mentioned that all this measuring and clearancing to get to a 40+ state was performed with a used head gasket that measures .062. I also stated that the Best Gasket website gives a compressed gasket thickness of .052. Somewhere I lost track of that other .010". Yikes, I'm back into carving out the combustion chambers again. Last night I went down and decided to see what kind of numbers I got on a typical cylinder with the new standard head gasket from my Best set, which outa the box is .058. I was sick of all the math required, and the chance that a piston hit the fire ring and alter my numbers, so went up to the woodshop and ripped some hard Eastern maple strips at EXACTLY .052. I made extra so I could pick five pieces about 8" long. Placed them vertically at each end and the center, the the two others I carved a scoop to fit between the pistons. These I used a dot of contact cement to prevent wandering. Did some balls and results were predictable. Need more carving.
I feel my carving skills were quite good and improved with practice, using the worn small grinding disc which I'm gonna say is about 3 1/2" or so. This disc has the typical worn out convex lense shape that occurs naturally from general use. Not pictured yet, but I later followed this up with a flap sanding disc of similar size and wear. The majority of carving to this point has been from zero to .010, and now I will need to remove another .010 in places. My gut feeling is this is ok. The chambers were virgin at the start.
My game plan moving forward is to wait til the big bore gaskets arrive from Olson's Gaskets and using a NEW sharper sharpie, outline the larger size on the head and dive in. I will continue to utilize the wood strip spacers for the remaining steps as it is so direct. And yes, I tested them after last night's experiment and the maple shows absolutely zero compression from six snug headbolts. Somebody should market a .052" thick aluminum 'head gasket'. Everything I searched just said 'use an old head gasket', so I did.

[51504bat]

Somewhere along the line I ended up with this metal "gasket" Have no idea what it was used for but maybe for determining clearances or to correct over milled heads? Thicker than a normal gasket but would be easier than using an actual gasket? Or maybe not.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

Somewhere along the line I ended up with this metal "gasket" Have no idea what it was used for but maybe for determining clearances or to correct over milled heads? Thicker than a normal gasket but would be easier than using an actual gasket? Or maybe not.

That's an oddity for sure. Maybe so you could run on kerosene during the depression?

[GB SISSON]

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Maybe there will be some that don't approve of the use of wood as an indicator of compressed gasket thickness, but I carefully made these to .052 and testing indicates no compressing and I'm sure it's more accurate than the ragged old stiff .062 head gasket I used previously. Looking back I shoulda put some big tin foil balls in between the slats to test my test.
First test with slats was with an untouched 8ba head just because I was curious and wanted a control sample. I set a couple of balls on wide open valves (no timing gear on) and found them to have visually 3/16" minimum clear. Next was one of my previously altered EAC heads, and yes, I would have had some way too close if I had not learned that the copper gasket at .080 would squish down to match the comp gasket at .052. When I chose the copper gasket from Olson I thought I was buying some insurance. Another thing evident is that strips are way more telling that widely spaced balls. At times I become overwhelmed with the stress from all this measuring and grinding, but with the help and encouragement here, I feel I can grind my way to a proper quench area and happy motoring. Thanks, GB edit: the sticks going crossways are just sign boards to caption the photo.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Maybe there will be some that don't approve of the use of wood as an indicator of compressed gasket thickness, but I carefully made these to .052 and testing indicates no compressing and I'm sure it's more accurate than the ragged old stiff .062 head gasket I used previously. Looking back I shoulda put some big tin foil balls in between the slats to test my test.
First test with slats was with an untouched 8ba head just because I was curious and wanted a control sample. I set a couple of balls on wide open valves (no timing gear on) and found them to have visually 3/16" minimum clear. Next was one of my previously altered EAC heads, and yes, I would have had some way too close if I had not learned that the copper gasket at .080 would squish down to match the comp gasket at .052. When I chose the copper gasket from Olson I thought I was buying some insurance. Another thing evident is that strips are way more telling that widely spaced balls. At times I become overwhelmed with the stress from all this measuring and grinding, but with the help and encouragement here, I feel I can grind my way to a proper quench area and happy motoring. Thanks, GB edit: the sticks going crossways are just sign boards to caption the photo.

[tubman]

A couple of things. First, I never use radical high lift cams (usually just a "MAX-1") and have never found a problem with clearance over the valves. I do put a large foil ball on each valve head on the initial check, just to be sure.

Second, I should clarify my remark about "pop-up" pistons. It was said partly in jest and partly to lend encouragement to this build. To be precise, the pistons DO protrude higher in the block than stock Ford units, and unless other changes are made, will require a relief in the head. Not nearly as extreme as Barney's but nevertheless a "pop-up" in concept.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks Denny, but is the work I'm doing on the heads above the pistons the relief you are mentioning? It should not take me too long to get everything to .040-.045 and finally put this behind me. If the experienced builders here think I am pushing the limits on thickness over the pistons I can explore my other head options, like all those 8ba heads. I've never been one to give up or lose interest and set a project aside for the future, so as soon as my big bore gaskets arrive I will bust out the sharpie and the grinder and tackle the high spots in the heads.

[Bored&Stroked]

I think your method is just fine. Maybe not as dimensionally accurate as a big doming tool in a big milling machine, but good enough. Also, one needs multiple doming tools - for the two quite different piston shapes.

You're almost there - glad you took the time to go through this - it is quite important that you don't slam your pistons into the heads! LOL Also, a tight quench really wakes up a flathead.

[tubman]

"Relief" is kind of a odd word here. Generally, any time you remove material from the combustion chamber, you are "relieving" it. Where the misunderstanding comes in is that "relieving" has a special meaning with flatheads, and specifically refers to removing material between the valve pockets and the cylinder. But here you will be relieving the head. It was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I am well aware of Barney Navarro's pop up pistons and related heads are much, much more "extreme" than what you have.

As I said, this was a poor way of interjecting a little humor ad encouragement into your build. I see now that it was misplaced and I apologize for it. Carry on; from all I can see, you're doing it right.

[GB SISSON]

I'm starting to smile again. Thanks Dale, and Denny I never thought for a minute that anything you said was offensive. Heck, the only Barney I recall from the '60s had a last name of Rubble.

[Bored&Stroked]

Just for informational fun, here is some information that I captured from Barney Navarro in the early 2000's - specifically related to pop-ups and his then experimental "High-Dome" heads.

He and I spent some time discussing the traditional flathead performance heads and I talked about the Harley KR and recommended that Barney incorporate some of the characteristics of the Harley KR into his cylinder heads. My next-door neighbor was super knowledgeable about KRs - had at least 6 of them in his garage and had built many for racing --> Daytona, Flat Track, Side-Hacks, etc.. His name was "Snuffy" Smith - he was like a second father to me and was a super intelligent mechanical wizard (in many things). My knowledge (and jugs, heads, etc) - came from Snuffy.

Another guy I know - Tom G. - helped Barney for a bit (said he was going to build a Bonneville car). Barney was happy for the help but had a falling out with Tom once he saw what Tom was up too. I knew Tom back in the day as well - he seemed like a decent dude at the time (was a shame that he wasn't on the up and up with Barney). Anyway, you'll find this to be an interesting read - glad that I captured it many moons ago!

This article was prior to H&H working out a deal with Barney to buy the rights, patterns and associated stuff from Barney. That happened relatively shortly after I penned this article.

Enjoy:

Navarro High-Dome Heads - DHays2022.pdf

[GB SISSON]

Interesting stuff Dale, thanks. There were some colorful folks and great minds in the racing scene in those days.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cadillac512

If you have one of those profile checking/transferring tools that is a bunch of hard wires that slide in a flat central sleeve, they are really handy for checking how a piston fits in a cylinder head dome. Rough, but handy reference data. Also, remember that as the heads are milled the dome decreases in diameter and may get close to the pistons around the perimeter depending on how far down the pistons are at TDC.

Terry, The more I learn about the process I am now involved in, the more I understand the principles you put forth here. At the time I couldn't visualize the piston shape as relates to head shape. Now I understand why I need to get a contour gauge as I bring my heads around to conform. You also called it on piston height as I really had to grind to get the outer perimeter into the realm of .040, and still not there yet. Others here as well have offered excellent advice that I didn't quite understand, but should have, as this territory was so new to me. I have always been a 'visual learner', the type that has to take tools in hand and almost ruin something in order to finally get it. This is not to infer that I know jack **** about cylinder heads, but I'm getting a taste for sure. Thanks to all of you.

[cadillac512]

Gary, this is stuff that takes years to learn, and in my case, a lot of good information and research by folks who were nice enough to publish their work so we can benefit from it. It's interesting for sure!
If you have the brand and part number of the pistons you are using I'd be very interested in knowing. The situation you are dealing with,pistons "out of the hole" a bit, is pretty darned rare in the Ford flathead rebuild world unless the pistons are specially made like Bored and Stroked has referenced. It's actually a nice thing to have since you can get the clearance you want all the way to the piston edges. With pistons down in the hole, you are stuck with whatever you have on the outer edges. Can't mill a head to fix that!

I think you'll be delighted with the way this engine will run. Your work quality so far is way above the average home builder's.

[GB SISSON]

Wow, Thanks for the vote of confidence Terry. Now I'm grinning ear to ear. I'm thinking of working up some specific tooling for bringing down the tight squish spots as I chase after the still elusive .045 zone. We have some out of town guests coming for lunch and I'm going to text them and see if they will pick up one of those fancy contour guages at the hardware store as they pass through town. Been cleaning up and priming more parts this morning. Not sure what color I will paint this thing, but machinery grey is at the forefront right now.

[cadillac512]

I painted mine Kubota blue. Here's the thread where I recut domes in EAB heads that had been milled and hit pistons.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325100

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by tubman

A couple of things. First, I never use radical high lift cams (usually just a "MAX-1") and have never found a problem with clearance over the valves. I do put a large foil ball on each valve head on the initial check, just to be sure.

Second, I should clarify my remark about "pop-up" pistons. It was said partly in jest and partly to lend encouragement to this build. To be precise, the pistons DO protrude higher in the block than stock Ford units, and unless other changes are made, will require a relief in the head. Not nearly as extreme as Barney's but nevertheless a "pop-up" in concept.

Tub,

Totally get it and I was being Mr. Literal with my comment.

Back when I bought my heads from Barney in the early 2000's, he told me about his Hi-Dome heads and had some for sale.

I was really interested until he said the only piston company making the pistons for this set up was Arias and they were $100 a piece.

Being a newlywed with not a pot to pee in, no way would I get kitchen clearance for a $800 set of pistons. I barely got it for the $630 for a set of his heads.

[Ziggster]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Wow, Thanks for the vote of confidence Terry. Now I'm grinning ear to ear. I'm thinking of working up some specific tooling for bringing down the tight squish spots as I chase after the still elusive .045 zone. We have some out of town guests coming for lunch and I'm going to text them and see if they will pick up one of those fancy contour guages at the hardware store as they pass through town. Been cleaning up and priming more parts this morning. Not sure what color I will paint this thing, but machinery grey is at the forefront right now.

I went with Dupli-Color Ford Gray engine paint. Like the way it tuned out.