Spring removal and Columbia installation

[SoCalCoupe]

Decided to start installation of my Columbia today and have the 1941 installation instructions. Haven't even gone to the garage yet because I'm stuck on the first sentence, "Disassemble Ford axle as shown in illustration No. 1."


How do I safely unbolt the spring from the shackles? From what I've read, the spring is under tension and if I remove one of the shackle bolts it will snap to the other side and maybe down. Should I use a spring spreader? Seems like I will need a spring spreader to reinstall it.


Help.

[deuce lover]

Yes spring spreader.Porta Power can be adapted also

[busmania]

In my 40, after overthinking and over worrying I just clamped it together with two large c clamps. Then remove bolt. Then slowly release c clamps. In my 40, there was probably only 2-3” of “spring” tension released upwards when it was all done.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Yes spring spreader.Porta Power can be adapted also

I'm with you Deuce.
C-clamps? Yeah, they work until one lets go and a guy gets injured or worse.

Keep the spring installed to the frame. Remove it from the axle housing.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Yes spring spreader.Porta Power can be adapted also

I'm a tool junkie. Would love to be the proud owner of a multi-purpose Porta-Power rather than a single use Ford spring spreader. I see this on Amazon. Seems like a couple of the tips there would work but obviously I don't want the whole thing to snap back in my face. Of course, the hose is long enough I wouldn't have to get too close.



Thoughts?

[ford38v8]

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Necessity is the mother of invention. If you have a floor jack, a couple of jackstands, and the power of reason, the task becomes easy peasy.

[glennpm]

I bought a Harbor Freight Porta-Power clone and made a second chisel end.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=22

[TJ]

If you have a tool rental store in your area you can probably rent one.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by TJ

If you have a tool rental store in your area you can probably rent one.

If you do rent, make sure that there are two wedge attachments.


Glenn

[SoCalCoupe]

Borrowed a spring spreader and got started.


Took a last drive and topped off the tank with fresh gas.


Jacked up the driver's side of the car and removed the rear wheel and hub. Removed the four bolts from the backing plan and quit for the day when I realized I'll have to disconnect the brake line. Didn't want to get into that but there's no choice. Trying to figure out how to seal up the brake line and wheel cylinder when I disconnect them. Any thoughts?
Don't know what kind of brake fluid is in the car. Any thoughts on to identify it? What should I put back in?

[dean333]

Get the complete rear end off the ground, stands under the side frame rails. Put a Columbia under my 33 last month.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by dean333

Get the complete rear end off the ground, stands under the side frame rails. Put a Columbia under my 33 last month.

[Ken/Alabama]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

Borrowed a spring spreader and got started.


Took a last drive and topped off the tank with fresh gas.


Jacked up the driver's side of the car and removed the rear wheel and hub. Removed the four bolts from the backing plan and quit for the day when I realized I'll have to disconnect the brake line. Didn't want to get into that but there's no choice. Trying to figure out how to seal up the brake line and wheel cylinder when I disconnect them. Any thoughts?
Don't know what kind of brake fluid is in the car. Any thoughts on to identify it? What should I put back in?

It’s easier to remove the whole rear axle with torque tube as a unit then replace it with the Columbia unit. To identify the brake fluid , put some water in a cup then put a little brake fluid in it . Dot 3 will cloud up the water. Dot 5 silicone will bead up into little bb’s

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by dean333

Get the complete rear end off the ground, stands under the side frame rails. Put a Columbia under my 33 last month.

Sounds good. That's the plan. Felt more comfortable with one wheel on the ground first time pulling a hub. I like "belt and suspenders" with jack stands (two each side.) Being under the car supported by jack stands gives me the heebees. I have another pair somewhere but if I can't find them I'll go to Harbor Freight and buy a 2nd pair.

Originally Posted by Ken/Alabama

It’s easier to remove the whole rear axle with torque tube as a unit then replace it with the Columbia unit. To identify the brake fluid , put some water in a cup then put a little brake fluid in it . Dot 3 will cloud up the water. Dot 5 silicone will bead up into little bb’s

Sounds like a good idea but my garage is too small to remove the axle as a unit. Thanks for the tip on the brake fluid.

[dean333]

The 33/34 Columbia instructions say not to remove the torque tube. Oh contrare, we pulled the whole assembly with the tube and put it on a makeshift workbench to build the Columbia.

[Kube]

SoCal,
Unless I am restoring a car, I install the Columbia pretty much as outlined in their instructions. That is, I remove only the left axle housing.
Installing one of these units is rather easy.
Harbor Freight jack stands? Not certain what they offer but DO buy the best you can afford. None of those cheap metal units.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by Kube

SoCal,
Unless I am restoring a car, I install the Columbia pretty much as outlined in their instructions. That is, I remove only the left axle housing.
Installing one of these units is rather easy.
Harbor Freight jack stands? Not certain what they offer but DO buy the best you can afford. None of those cheap metal units.

Kube, Thanks. I can afford the best jack stands; not sure what those might be, so much cr@p made in Ch!n@. Not a Harbor Freight fan at all. Just don't know where else to go for jack stands. Pretty simple product. But, willing to pay for the best to avoid having the car fall on my face.


Yes, Columbia conversion seems pretty easy all things considered. Really enthusiastic about this project.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

Kube, Thanks. I can afford the best jack stands; not sure what those might be, so much cr@p made in Ch!n@. Not a Harbor Freight fan at all. Just don't know where else to go for jack stands. Pretty simple product. But, willing to pay for the best to avoid having the car fall on my face.


Yes, Columbia conversion seems pretty easy all things considered. Really enthusiastic about this project.

Gosh, I'm not certain where to get high quality stands these days. Used to be WALKER brand were the best. They no longer exist.
NAPA sold Walker under their own brand name.
Craftsman used to sell good quality as well.

[glennpm]

Nothing wrong with these. I have four sets of them and never had an issue.


https://www.harborfreight.com/3-ton-...nge-58346.html

[dean333]

Kube, I’m sure you meant removing the RIGHT axle housing.

I don’t know what you consider “easy”, especially if it’s up on jack stands. Adjusting the gear mesh pattern is an all day job….taking it apart at least three times to get the proper shim thickness. I can’t imagine doing that on your back as well as everything else. Everyone I’ve talked to says it’s an eight hour process.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by dean333

Kube, I’m sure you meant removing the RIGHT axle housing.

I don’t know what you consider “easy”, especially if it’s up on jack stands. Adjusting the gear mesh pattern is an all day job….taking it apart at least three times to get the proper shim thickness. I can’t imagine doing that on your back as well as everything else. Everyone I’ve talked to says it’s an eight hour process.

I did misstate. Actually, both housings must be removed. Thanks for the catch. I didn't mean to add confusion to this thread.
Eight hours? I can imagine that if a guy is doing this for the first time.
I'd installed so many of these, it's a fairly easy process for me. Getting up and down not so much anymore

[SoCalCoupe]

I am unbelievably slow but making progress. Bought an additional pair of jack stands last month then went on vacation. Borrowed a spring spreader from a fellow EFV8 club member.


Spent the morning in the garage and detached the spring, removed the other hub and both backing plates. Was concerned about making a mess with brake fluid but didn't. Just put a paper towel under the brake line as I was disconnecting it and caught the couple of drops that leaked out.


Had to stop because I couldn't remember how to disassemble the axle. Looks like I need to drain the oil then remove the LH housing and RH housing. Then the axles come out after I remove the housings.


The differential drain and fill plugs are badly rounded out. I'll buy some new ones. I'll wrap my 3/8" drive in shim stock to wrench out the existing ones so I don't strip them out completely. Looks like I'll also have to buy some lock-wire for reassembly of the internals.

[deuce lover]

The axles are all connected with the carriier along with the ring gear. It all comes out the left side after removing the left axle housing . Then remove the right axle housing.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by dean333

Kube, I’m sure you meant removing the RIGHT axle housing.

I don’t know what you consider “easy”, especially if it’s up on jack stands. Adjusting the gear mesh pattern is an all day job….taking it apart at least three times to get the proper shim thickness. I can’t imagine doing that on your back as well as everything else. Everyone I’ve talked to says it’s an eight hour process.

Agree that this is the worst part. I did mine on a workbench and wouldn't want to do it under the car. Parts get heavier as I get older :-)

[Bored&Stroked]

Getting the backlash and gear mesh correctly set is really important for the overall noise and life of the gears. Preload on the pinion is important as well - though you're probably not taking the pinion out of the banjo, so you might get away with leaving it alone.

I can't imagine doing it on the floor of my garage and actually believe it would not be easy to know you had it correctly set. I'd take the whole unit out of the car and work on it where you can really see what the heck you're doing.

I make a wooden "box" out of 2" x 6" boards and stand 1/2 of the unit on it (no axles in it) - vertically (with backing plate on). Now that it is supported and about waist high, I can work on the setup of the gears and differential (side gaskets) to get the gear mesh where it needs to be. Once this is all correctly setup, then I put the whole unit together with the axles.

I also made a plate that picks up the banjo bolt-circle - so I can work on the unit on an engine stand. This makes a lot of the work a bit easier as well. The only bad part is my stands are not tall enough to completely rotate the unit . . . Oh well!

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[motordr]

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Oh boy Dale, that Chuck key.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Getting the backlash and gear mesh correctly set is really important for the overall noise and life of the gears. Preload on the pinion is important as well - though you're probably not taking the pinion out of the banjo, so you might get away with leaving it alone.

I can't imagine doing it on the floor of my garage and actually believe it would not be easy to know you had it correctly set. I'd take the whole unit out of the car and work on it where you can really see what the heck you're doing.

I make a wooden "box" out of 2" x 6" boards and stand 1/2 of the unit on it (no axles in it) - vertically (with backing plate on). Now that it is supported and about waist high, I can work on the setup of the gears and differential (side gaskets) to get the gear mesh where it needs to be. Once this is all correctly setup, then I put the whole unit together with the axles.

I also made a plate that picks up the banjo bolt-circle - so I can work on the unit on an engine stand. This makes a lot of the work a bit easier as well. The only bad part is my stands are not tall enough to completely rotate the unit . . . Oh well!

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by motordr

Oh boy Dale, that Chuck key.

I usually never leave it in the lathe . . . but I guess I did on this particular day! LOL

[motordr]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I usually never leave it in the lathe . . . but I guess I did on this particular day! LOL

I’m sure that it wasn’t you, must have been your helper. lol.

[SoCalCoupe]

Stuck again. Can't remove the axle keys to get the housings off over the axle.


This link seems like a good FordBarn thread but neither the center punch, dykes, or vice grips are working for me. I REALLY don't want to move to the cutting wheel stage.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

Kube, Thanks. I can afford the best jack stands; not sure what those might be, so much cr@p made in Ch!n@. Not a Harbor Freight fan at all. Just don't know where else to go for jack stands. Pretty simple product. But, willing to pay for the best to avoid having the car fall on my face.


Yes, Columbia conversion seems pretty easy all things considered. Really enthusiastic about this project.

About jackstands, there are lots of choices, but one feature to look for in a good jackstand is a solid, flat base. 4 legs on the ground will not support the weight, one or two legs sink into the asphalt, which tends to ruin your day.

[38 coupe]

Did you get the keys out? One thought I have had in the past, but never had to resort to doing, was to carefully grind the top of the key down enough for the axle housing to slide off. I figured once the axle shaft was separate I could weld something to the key and pull it out without worrying about weld splatter on anything else.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Did you get the keys out? One thought I have had in the past, but never had to resort to doing, was to carefully grind the top of the key down enough for the axle housing to slide off. I figured once the axle shaft was separate I could weld something to the key and pull it out without worrying about weld splatter on anything else.

No, I haven't got them out yet but that's a thought.


I have to work this week but come the weekend I'll go at it again. I'm a tool junkie and ordered another tool which should arrive Friday, 12" nippers. I'll try ice on the key to shrink it then try to pull it out with the new high leverage nippers.


Wish me luck.

[ford38v8]

To remove a stuck key, use a drift pin (not a center punch) and mallet to tap the key inboard and up the ramp in the axle. The key has nowhere to go but up and out.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

Did you get the keys out? One thought I have had in the past, but never had to resort to doing, was to carefully grind the top of the key down enough for the axle housing to slide off. I figured once the axle shaft was separate I could weld something to the key and pull it out without worrying about weld splatter on anything else.

That's a thought. I have to work this week but come the weekend I'll go at it again. I'm a tool junkie and ordered another tool which should arrive Friday, 12" nippers. I'll try ice on the key to shrink it then try to pull it out with the new high leverage nippers.


Wish me luck.

[SoCalCoupe]

Unbelievable. Countless hours over the past 19 days and now the axle keys are out. One of the guys in my Early Ford V8 Club has lot's of experience with this. He came over with his own chisel with the right skew and right bevel, held his mouth just so, swung the hammer just right, and got them both out in less than 10 minutes. Didn't even get his hands dirty.


This guy's worked on dozens, maybe hundreds, of flathead race cars and said he's never been defeated by an axle key. His record is intact!


Might get this Columbia done yet.

[SoCalCoupe]

OK. 3 months later I might be back on track. Got REALLY stuck on installing a spring shackle bushing on my Columbia housing that was delivered without any. Really want my flathead back in commission and have fun driving. This afternoon, after a local car show with another car, I bolted up the Columbia to the rear end center section. Have to make sure that I've got it clocked correctly to the right bolt holes. The alignment of the spring shackle and radius arm brackets seem spot on but the fill level indicator on the Columbia seems higher than the fill hole on the differential. Also, I expected the flat surfaces of the Columbia to be parallel and perpendicular to the ground but they're clockwise forward as if I've bolted it up one hole off. I'll figure it out though. Just glad to get unstuck and start getting the car back together.

[glennpm]

Make sure that you have the center section to axle housing shim gaskets figured out. You can't just bolt it together without doing this step. B&S mentioned it in post #25 above.

Instructions are located in post #6 of this Barn thread, "HOW TO PROPERLY SET UP 1928-1948 FoMoCo and COLUMBIA REAR AXLE ASSEMBLIES USING THE GASKETS AS SHIMS"

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250383


Glenn