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09-11-2021, 08:12 PM | #1 |
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45 Truck parking brake problems
The parking brake has not worked well on my 45 truck, so I adjusted it so it would hold. Problem was, the brakes were dragging when the brake was off. Delving further into it, the brake was only holding on the passenger side and not engaging on the driver's side. I took the brake drum off and even adjusting all the slack out of that cable will not engage that shoe. I am trying to figure out how to fix this? The brakes work great stopping the truck - it's just the emergency brake that I can't get to work.
I had assumed that everything was connected properly, but after lots of searching I may have identified the problem. Looking at a photo of a 40 passenger car brake assembly from the EV8 club forum identified during a search, it appears that the e-brake actuating arms have been reversed on my truck. Take a look at my pic plus one from a 40 that was posted on the EV8 club forum by Mike Kubarth. I also have a link to a parts drawing that shows all the parts to the brake, although this is for a passenger car. It looks just like mine. It's hard to be definitive about the assembly from the parts drawings, however I'd appreciate comments about whether my brake is assembled properly. The first pic is my brake assembly, the second is a 40 passenger car pic posted by Mike Kubarth on the V8 club forum. Thanks in advance for comments andsuggestions. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...s_46-48car.jpg
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1924 Model T Coupe 1928 Model A Roadster 1930 Model A Town Sedan 1939 Deluxe Fordor 1945 pickup 1951 Custom convertible |
09-11-2021, 11:19 PM | #2 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Large picture of "mhsprecher" 1945 Ford Truck rear assembled Parking Brake assembly. He asks if it is assembled correctly? |
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09-11-2021, 11:39 PM | #3 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Unless I’m missing something, it looks like the lever that is pulled by the brake cable is too close to the grease catcher, which would limit the travel.
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09-12-2021, 01:35 AM | #4 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
^^^^^ I was thinking the same thing, if the lever is located so far forward at rest it would unlikely run out of travel before moving the shoes very far.
The book I have shows them arranged like Kube's picture; but other pictures show them like yours. Playing at my desk just now with a set of brake levers and links; it appears to me they would work either way. |
09-12-2021, 04:50 AM | #5 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
I have not removed the brake drum on the other side to see the difference, which I will do today. Thinking on it, I don't see that reversing them would make a difference, either. I agree that moving the lever doesn't move the shoes very far before it runs out of travel due to the grease catcher, but why is that? The only thing I can see that would make a difference would be to adjust so the tops of the shoes are closer together so they move more when the hand brake is actuated, but if they don't touch the shoes, what good would that do? My assumption is that adjusting the brake shoes so that they are closer together at the top would require more movement of the hand brake to engage the shoes to the drum.
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09-12-2021, 07:46 AM | #6 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
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09-12-2021, 08:05 AM | #7 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Terry,OH, hmmm. It's a half ton truck.
I would think that Kube's shot of the 40 brakes is right. As for mine, I agree that they should be applied given how far forward the lever is. Moving it by hand as far as it goes, it moves a tiny, tiny bit. Searching again I came across this thread where someone had the same issue I am having and what they did to fix it. I was thinking this was a possible solution to my situation. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277228
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1924 Model T Coupe 1928 Model A Roadster 1930 Model A Town Sedan 1939 Deluxe Fordor 1945 pickup 1951 Custom convertible Last edited by mhsprecher; 09-12-2021 at 08:20 AM. |
09-12-2021, 09:44 AM | #8 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Maybe the parts are swapped side to side?
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09-12-2021, 12:17 PM | #9 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
That's my theory. I am pulling the other wheel to find out. I will also check on part numbers on the lever to see, as well as the horizontal arm that actuates the brake.
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09-12-2021, 01:25 PM | #10 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
I'd bet that the cable is hanging up in the sheath due to rust or road grime. This was a common problem with Ford cable brakes in 37-38, and hastened the conversion to the hydraulic system. Disconnect the cable at both ends and work it back and forth while applying a spray lube such as WD40. Don'y use grease, as it will attract dirt.
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09-12-2021, 02:58 PM | #11 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
The latest: I removed the passenger side brake drum. the first thing I noticed was that the axle nut was not threaded as far on the axle as the other side and that a nail was used instead of a cotter pin on the castle nut. When I removed the nut, the threaded end of the axle didn't look great. I also measured both axles from the bearing out and found that the one on the passenger side was a little shorter. I'd say that that axle end was on borrowed time. It looks like I should replace the axle. What do you all think?
As to Supereal's comment, the cable seems quite free, but I will check it. As to the brake mechanism, it looks the same as the other side, except that the spring on lever seems tighter and provides some resistance on the brake lever.
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09-12-2021, 03:16 PM | #12 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
The 91A-2108/2109 slotted links were the same from 1939 through 1948 but the green bible shows that the operating levers 91A-2103/2104 were used from 1939 through 1945. The lever changed to the 59A-2103/2104 for 1946 through 1948. Kubes photo is likely 1940 so that's what the 1945 commercials should look like. If someone used parts from a 1946 or later then there may be some difference in the early and late levers but I don't know what that difference is.
The lever has to engage the slot in the link in order for the E-brake to work at all. That attachment is what works one shoe toward the rear and the other toward the front. There are right and left parts for both assemblies but I doubt if they will even fit correctly on the opposite side. The photo in post #1 is not clear on whether there is an unseen link there when assembled. I'd have to see the other side of the lever to see if there is a good link there. This may be the difference between the early type lever and the late type lever. If the lever does properly engage the link then I'd be looking at the shoes and drums to see if there is too much wear on the braking surfaces or there may be a mix up in shoes. There are early and late type shoes as well but I don't know if they would even fit on the wrong backing plate or not. The drums should be no larger in ID than 12.060". The linings were meant to fit a drum that is within tolerance. If the drum is worn too much than the shoes have to move too far to make contact. Folks find all sorts of things wrong with the tapered end of the axles. I've seen the threaded end beaten down like that before. If some previous owner or shade tree wrench beat on it for an hour to remove the drum & hub the they likely had to reshape the end and re-thread it as well. This is not uncommon to find on this old stuff. The tapers can get worn from too much fretting due to a loose axle nut or a sheared key spinning in the hub. If the taper will still fit the hub and the drum doesn't rub the brake baking plate then there may be a bit of life left if the threads will hold a proper torque. Torque is important on a tapered shaft. It's common to find tapered shims on them too but the axle nut has to have a good engagement for proper torque. There are still good axles out there but it's getting harder to find them in this day and age. Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-12-2021 at 11:19 PM. |
09-12-2021, 05:20 PM | #13 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Re the first 2 photos. the left hand pic, while something is wrong, clearly, is actually assembled correctly. the link goes towards the rear of the lever. The pic on the right is incorrect because there is nothing to stop the link popping off the pin on the lever.
Re the position of the lever, against the grease shield, with not travel available, is that how it is when the drum is on? Or has the emergency brake been applied with the drum off? I believe there are different levers (and links?) for early/late brake assemblies, could the parts be mismatched? A good measurement of the drum would be useful, as would a measurement of lining thickness. The axle thread looks very dodgy. The tapered surfaces also look very contaminated with grease or oil. They should be bone dry, as should the tapered bore of the hubs. The threads need to be in good condition to enable a very high torque value to be applied to ensure no fretting between hub and shaft. The levers have left and right on them (I think) so they shouldn't be fitted the wrong way round. |
09-13-2021, 12:37 AM | #14 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Looking at your latest picture; part of the cable tube is missing. The spring stop clip bears against the tube so that is probably why the arms are not held back to the rear when released.
Looking closer at the picture of the other side you posted earlier; also appears the tube is broken (rusted) off too. Doesn't explain why you can't get it to work tho. The question about earlier and late levers is interesting; but I never noticed any difference between them. Here's a picture I took of the normal inside tube length. |
09-13-2021, 04:54 AM | #15 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Aren’t there 2 sets of holes on the top of the shoes ? Could the post for the e brake be in the wrong holes ? Id have to get some shoes out to check since my memory stinks .
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09-13-2021, 07:22 AM | #16 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
"Looking at your latest picture; part of the cable tube is missing."
Interesting observation. The link to the parts drawing shows that tube, too. I think the truck was in pretty good shape when restored, so I doubt they were rusted off. I will look to see if there is evidence of the tubes having been there previously.
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09-13-2021, 03:43 PM | #17 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Per Rich B's comment, I went out and looked at my backing plates. The place where the cable threads through the backing plate is bolted on, so it seems that there is that difference between my backing plates and Rich's. Pic attached.
The linings, while worn, seem to have a lot of meat on them. The drums may be a little thin. A friend checked them today and said that they were worn. I want to get a second opinion.
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09-13-2021, 04:16 PM | #18 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Did he measure the drums with a brake drum micrometer?
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09-13-2021, 04:20 PM | #19 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
I notice the brake shoe retracting spring (2035) seem to be under some of the hand brake linkage. This can effect operation of the hand brake. The spring has to clear everything on both ends of the spring when installed. Just as a guess I would believe the pin on the lever (2103 & 2104) has over ridden the grove it is supposed to fit into on levers 2108 & 2109. It also appears if your vehicle has the passenger type disc rims it is a commercial and not considered a truck. Most of the trucks start at 3/4T
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09-13-2021, 04:31 PM | #20 |
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Re: 45 Truck parking brake problems
Yes, he did.
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