Brookville Roadster more valuable?

[37 Coupe]

Over the last 4-5 years I have seen two 1930 Ford Roadsters bring top money,one was crazy money and both had Brookville reproduction bodies. The one I witnessed first hand at an estate auction,beautifull car with a tudor sedan title but a Brookville Roadster body.I was very surprised that the auctioneer did not disclose or even mention this but the car sold for over $30,000 and it was a phone bid. Today and I imagine evn then you could go out and buy the best roadster on the planet and original for that. I know of another one for sale in Ohio with the Brookville body and it is in the twenties. So my question or statement Brookville adds to the value because it is new and never any rust issues? To me I think the other way original is always the best but I see the issues with my '31 roadster body.

[Joe K]

When Brookville first came out (1980s) there was a lot of "comparison" and even "sneering" at the Model A Wannabe.

I mean little differences. Like the holes in the seat supports are "oval" in the originals and two intersecting circles on the Brookville (like a few moments with a die grinder and a file might solve that - but that would leave "evidence?")

Today with the interchangeability and conformance to Ford standards established - I think the value differences for a "Model A User" is less.

Judging, of course, a different and higher standard. Even Rootlieb hoods are detected and discounted in that venue.

But I think for the casual user/driver/enjoyment, the pricing becomes one of "trade-off." As you say betweem "original" and "rust free and no surprises."

Joe K

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 37 Coupe

Over the last 4-5 years I have seen two 1930 Ford Roadsters bring top money,one was crazy money and both had Brookville reproduction bodies. The one I witnessed first hand at an estate auction,beautifull car with a tudor sedan title but a Brookville Roadster body.I was very surprised that the auctioneer did not disclose or even mention this but the car sold for over $30,000 and it was a phone bid. Today and I imagine evn then you could go out and buy the best roadster on the planet and original for that. I know of another one for sale in Ohio with the Brookville body and it is in the twenties. So my question or statement Brookville adds to the value because it is new and never any rust issues? To me I think the other way original is always the best but I see the issues with my '31 roadster body.

Being very truthful with you, I know of several Model-A Roadsters that have sold for WAY more than that $30k amount, and several on the planet could not be purchased for twice that amount. The most notable one would be Marcos.


As far as reproduction bodies are concerned, I doubt the buyer cared as long as the entire package was perceived as a value to him. So often people like to criticize others who place a greater value on something than they do as if to insinuate that person is foolish. Funny how that works.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If you look at the for sale As on the internet, lots of As asking prices of 25 k and up. I do not know what they actually sell for, but a few are more than 40 K.

[Oldbluoval]

Knowledgeable and discriminating buyers think way more of a nice original
Brookville has done a great job but devalued roadster imho
There are more 30-31 deluxe roadsters out there today than Henry built!!

[77Birdman]

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As a future/potential model a buyer, I would like to know the car is close to original and not re-bodied. I am a bit picky that way. I think the prices that may have been realized probably have nothing to do with what body was on there. For me as a newbie, this is the first time I have heard of these. Good info to have though. As far as value I am surprised that the Shay cars command as much as they do compared to the real deal!

[Nosetime]

My 30-31 Brookville Roadster body is going on the frame for the first time on Sunday. In my situation, I could get by building the rest of the car in my limited space and other restrictions....but no way do body work! I would say if you can buy a complete original car, go for it. In my case, I rescued a rolling chassis with no body, so a Brookville was my best bet.

[Joe K]

As far as value I am surprised that the Shay cars command as much as they do compared to the real deal!

Different clientele. Shay/Glassique cars are for the "weekend wannabe." Which perhaps is where the low end "antique car driver" finds themselves. Not hobbyist in the Model A restoration sense - more a "user."

If a Shay doesn't run, you call a tow-truck and have it brought to a Ford Garage.

If a Model A doesn't run, you roll up your sleeves - mostly. Or hire a specialist.

As to value, my experience is Shay value runs around the same as a "previously restored post WWII" Model A. Newer restorations can get more since they tend to be more authentic plus things like roadsters & phaetons are "harder" and involve more "fitment."

And having scored above (say) 400 in judging can bring a Model A value up. Shay's don't get judged - except if they don't start.

Joe K

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Joe K

And having scored above (say) 400 in judging can bring a Model A value up. Shay's don't get judged - except if they don't start.

Joe K

Hmmmm, they are eligible for, -and have been seen in AACA judging competition. There is a huge cult following for all of the Shay products. We have done quite a bit of work on a Shay Thunderbird for a customer.

[Nosetime]

Joe, I think you're confusing a replica car with a correct steel reproduced body on an otherwise original car? I have painstakingly built my car with original parts as much as possible. So, is my car still a Model A? Ha ha, that is open for debate! There is the story of a Brookville winning a prestigious show back in the day to prove their point. I believe it was embarrassing for the judges and a bit of a scandal at the time!

[37 Coupe]

One thing I have learned after buying a '31 roadster last August is there will always be a better one almost week after week and cheaper and closer to home. I agree also that there is probably more roadsters especially Deluxe roadsters than Henry built. Surprisingly the two roadsters I know about claimed matching numbers with frame and engine but the title showed the numbers were for a tudor sedan in one case and another body style in another. I tried to buy a local '31 roadster that I really admired for years only to be told by the son of the deceased owner that it will probably never be able to be legally sold. Seems an appraiser told them it or the title could not be transferred as the engine number did not match the chassis and title . I tried to convince them that Henry had a dumb idea stamping numbers on an engine and at the same time or later offering an engine exchange program and also you could go to Sears when I was a kid in the late fifties and sixties and buy a Model A engine. I guess an original Model A roadster with everything matching would be the most valuable and something I never ran across at least locally in my 55 years of old car fun.

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Nosetime

Joe, I think you're confusing a replica car with a correct steel reproduced body on an otherwise original car? I have painstakingly built my car with original parts as much as possible. So, is my car still a Model A? Ha ha, that is open for debate! There is the story of a Brookville winning a prestigious show back in the day to prove their point. I believe it was embarrassing for the judges and a bit of a scandal at the time!

Actually I drew a parallel joining "casual users." You see Model As all the time as "restored by my father in 1966 and driven for parades since then." These are the $8-12K Model As. The "parade" cars. Usually owned and used by the children of the original restorer - and for sale because the child's interest is different from Dad's.

And Shay/Glassique selling at $8-12K fills a similar automotive niche - except they can be driven reliably beyond 55 mph. (As befits the Pinto Engine they contain.) And having the Ford Garage in your quiver of service options is much an attraction to a "User" who may not be mechanically inclined.

NOT confusing Shay/Glassique with Brookville - which if you read my first post I put more as a reasonable alternative for owning a Model A - without the question marks or restoration difficulties that come with an "original." One may even consider Brookville a "short-cut" - but that does the quality product Brookville is a dis-service in description. I would term it an "alternate route."

I myself tend to prefer the mechanics - and would consider a Brookville RPU - if I could afford one. Me with no less than two other "parts cars" minus bodies (sheet metal is "difficult" in New England land of Salt) I would certainly be a candidate.

Others eschew the mechanics and enjoy the body work on originals.

And some, the especially talented, do both.

Each to their own.

Joe K


Edit: - and Yes, Brent, Even Shay/Glassique is finding adherents. It was and remains a unique thing. The hubris of the original company/owners is astounding. That they survived and made a reasonable production is credible. And - unlike Model A which were made in the millions, Shay/Glassique were "limited production" by comparison. Value is frequently determined by rarity. A Shay today MIGHT be a good undervalued investment option - one you can drive and have serviced at Ford?

[rotorwrench]

All I know it that the new body is expensive. The new body is also giving life to a lot of old frames out there that would have rusted away otherwise. A lot of folks don't care if it is totally original. They just want a fun old Model A to drive. It also keeps more originals original that may have been hot rodded after time due to fewer and fewer cars being available.

The same thing goes for 1932 Fords and others where new bodies are available. Most folks don't want a fordor. They want a roadster or a coupe.

[37 Coupe]

The Early Ford V8 Club accepts the Brookville 1932 Ford roadster body.I am pretty sure I read a few years ago one was awarded a Dearborn at a West Coast national meet. I think they put in the rules to justfy as to where a replacement panel can begin or end and also that wood body cars as in Sportsman and station wagons can be replaced why not an entire steel body. Mayby a new rule since as I haven't kept up,a lot of stuff seems hypocritical to me.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I wouldnt think less of a Brookville vs. Orig.bodied car but my personal preferance is an original. Its just too big a part of the car for me.

That said, I am guessing most Brookville bodies are fitted to full restorations and on average those cars sell for more. I might feel differently if my roadster was rusty though, I have seen some really nice Brookville cars for sure.

[Jeff/Illinois]

[QUOTE=37 Coupe;1738598 Surprisingly the two roadsters I know about claimed matching numbers with frame and engine but the title showed the numbers were for a tudor sedan in one case and another body style in another. [/QUOTE]

I think that's called 'fraud' and the auctioneer here was putting himself in jeopardy by not announcing what this car truly was

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Agree Jeff. My brother in law has a 65 GTO vert, actually a very well done, frame up Lemans conversion. It works for him and was sold as such, at roughly 50% less than the real deal. Same engine, trpower, stick, badges, etc. But....not born that way. Those kinds of cars are fine until someone trys to pass it off as the real deal. The market dictates a 25 to 30k difference in that case, so authenticity does mean a lot to a lot of buyers.

An original Derham bodied Duesenberg Tourster (maybe 5 or 6 built) is worth double plus what a perfect reproduction bodied car is for the same reason.

I think A folks sre more tolorant in general and we like our cars a lot of different ways, but I would hope a fine point original gets at least a small nod over the repro bodied car. I know aaca would judge them equally.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Steve_Mack_CT

I think A folks sre more tolorant in general and we like our cars a lot of different ways, but I would hope a fine point original gets at least a small nod over the repro bodied car. I know aaca would judge them equally.

Steve, I generally find that there are those who are buying a Model-A for the enjoyment of owning/driving that really do not care about authenticity. If it is painted Red and the buyer's spouse thinks it is pretty, then it does not matter to them if it is an incorrect color. Reproduction parts no longer matter to someone like that. It used to be that fiberglass fenders were taboo to a sale, but now most buyers do not care. They just want it to look pretty and be reliable.

Funny thought though.... What is that story about the guy boasting that his family owns the original axe that George Washington chopped down the Cherry tree with?? Along the way in history, his family has replaced the axe's handle 3 different times and the axe head once, but it is the same axe that George Washington used. The same thing might be said for the guy that owns a Model-A Deluxe Roadster that has a new set of subrails installed, new floor pans, patch panels throughout, a repro hood and 4 fenders --but he claims his is all original and scorns at the guy that has a Brookville body.

[WHN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Steve, I generally find that there are those who are buying a Model-A for the enjoyment of owning/driving that really do not care about authenticity. If it is painted Red and the buyer's spouse thinks it is pretty, then it does not matter to them if it is an incorrect color. Reproduction parts no longer matter to someone like that. It used to be that fiberglass fenders were taboo to a sale, but now most buyers do not care. They just want it to look pretty and be reliable.

Funny thought though.... What is that story about the guy boasting that his family owns the original axe that George Washington chopped down the Cherry tree with?? Along the way in history, his family has replaced the axe's handle 3 different times and the axe head once, but it is the same axe that George Washington used. The same thing might be said for the guy that owns a Model-A Deluxe Roadster that has a new set of subrails installed, new floor pans, patch panels throughout, a repro hood and 4 fenders --but he claims his is all original and scorns at the guy that has a Brookville body.

Very well said.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Brent you would have a real good handle on the market. Maybe I have been spending too much time with my CCCA budies but while everything you say makes perfect sense for 99% of the As out there I was kind of thinking of the fine point cars. Not an issue for me as our cars are drivers.

Leaning more to a non authentic Ford maroon for my car which is at no risk of earning a fine point award!! ��

[Keith True]

My A truck is like Brent says.My uncle gave it to me when I was 12.It is on it's third body,second frame,but it still has the engine,trans,and horn that I got it with,so it is still the Model A my uncle gave me.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Stories like that are priceless Keith!

[Jeff/Illinois]

I agree with Steve on Keith's story... I have a pile of '36 Ford PU parts that were off of Pop's truck when he owned it, unfortunately in the 60's a cousin chopped it in two and made a farm trailer out of the bed assy. for his farm operations, and the front part was robbed of the LH door, hood, and grille and the drivetrain's gone now, BUT it is still 'Pop's '36' and I cherish what's left of it

[Joe K]

The story of "Grandpa's Axe."

I've replaced the handle three times and the head twice - but it's still Grandpa's Axe!

The USS Constitution continues as the nation's oldest Commissioned Warship. The ship - made of wood clad in copper - has been replaced piecemeal ad-infinitum since the beginning and is now estimated to be less than 10 percent original wood in the ship.

Joe K

[30 Closed Cab PU]

So since most cells in your body have been replaced, are you still original?




If you have had an organ/knee/hip/etc. replaced, are you still considered original?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by Steve_Mack_CT

Brent you would have a real good handle on the market. Maybe I have been spending too much time with my CCCA budies but while everything you say makes perfect sense for 99% of the As out there I was kind of thinking of the fine point cars. Not an issue for me as our cars are drivers.

Leaning more to a non authentic Ford maroon for my car which is at no risk of earning a fine point award!! ��

A side note to consider is that people own something for many reasons. Often times a specific reason why someone owns something seems dumb to someone else. For example, most of the time I find that a Fine-Point vehicle is restored solely for the challenge of the restoration. It is the 'backstory' that includes the research for establishing what is authentic or correct, -the quest for finding the correct item, -mastering the process of making something function and look esthetically correct just as it did back on a certain date, ...and to see how far they can push their skill set during the project. To other hobbyists, this challenge is greater than they desire, so it does not seem like fun or desirable. I always tell my customers to choose the way that will make YOU the most happy, and to you will be correct. I'm sure whichever shade of Maroon you choose will be perfect!!