How to tell difference between 272ci and 292 ci

[grumppyoldman]

I"m looking at a 55 club sedan, the seller say's it's a 292 ci. and I need to know a way to tell if it's a 292 or a 272. I think 292 was an option in 55, but not sure. Is there a letter or number in the vin. no. that will tell what it is. Thanks for any help. Al

[KULTULZ]

The 292 in a 55 PASS CAR was a POLICE OPTION only. It was available in the BIRD and MERC.

[darrell]

if its original it will be 272.look back by dist,and you should see ECG

[scicala]

If you look at the chart KULTULZ posted, the codes listed on the chart is in the first digit of your VIN. My guess would be a "U" (272 2 barrel), or an "M" (272 4 barrel). Possible to be a 292 4 barrel ("P") but very rare. I have never seen one.
Also, who knows what engine is in there since new.


There is lots of info on casting numbers and Y-Block info at:


ford-y-block.com


Sal

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by scicala

If you look at the chart KULTULZ posted, the codes listed on the chart is in the first digit of your VIN. My guess would be a "U" (272 2 barrel), or an "M" (272 4 barrel). Possible to be a 292 4 barrel ("P") but very rare. I have never seen one.
Also, who knows what engine is in there since new.

There is lots of info on casting numbers and Y-Block info at:
ford-y-block.com

Sal

Confirm for yourself what the engine block is, the current owner may have been given incorrect info by the previous owner. The first letter of the VIN only tells you what the car left the factory with, not what's in it now after all these years.

The engine blocks look too much the same to tell them apart without checking the actual block casting number.
Here is a chart with all years of Y-block casting numbers and example photos of their location,
at this link...

http://ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm

http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm

More... (with intake & exhaust manifold numbers)
http://www.y-block.info/castings.html
.

[grumppyoldman]

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Thanks guy's the on I had in 1960 was a 272 with 2 barrel carb. and I've never seen one with a 292. The guy said the engine had been re-built, so it could have been changed then. I'll have to check the block #'s to find out for sure. Al

[scicala]

I believe it's possible to bore a 272 to a 292 bore size (.125" over), so maybe that's what happened during the rebuild. Sounds like an awful lot to bore though.
The block casting number should help explain what it was before the rebuild, or may cause more confusion.


Sal

[Daves55Sedan]

In 1955, the only full-size cars that had a factory 292 were equipped with the "Special Police" package. This is denoted on your VIN by the first letter "P". The 272, 2-bbl code was "U", the 272, 4-bbl/dual exh code was "M".
Basically, the police engine in 1955 was the same engine used in the '55 T-Bird, except that the full size car 292 had the car valve covers and 4-bbl air cleaner.
About 35 years ago, somebody who owned a '55 Crown Victoria came over to visit me and told me that his car had a 239 Y-block engine and that it was allegedly the factory engine. I told him that the 239 was only available in cars in 1954, but they were used in the F-100 pickup truck in '55.
If it is truly an un-molested '55 272, the front face of the heads are smooth with no casting splits. All the 292 and 312 heads have a casting split visible at front & back of the head.

[KULTULZ]

The 1955 P VIN CHARACTER describes the 292 BIRD only.

The PI was not included in the ENGINE CHART as it was not a regular production option. It was calibrated differently from the BIRD engines.

The BIRD engine(s) actually had more advertised HP.

It most likely was shown in the POLICE PARTS CATALOG only.

... sigh ...

... seems I went off half-cocked with no resulting flash-in-the-pan ...

EDIT-

I came across this info which shows 1955 ENGINE CODE P is indicating the BIRD and/or the PI 292.

CVA - https://thecvaonline.com/howtos/DataPlateDecoder.pdf


They were still calibrated differently as described in the 1955 FORD SHOP MANUAL.

[scicala]

There is a definite echo in here if you look at post #4.


There were two different HP rated 292's in '55. Auto trans was 198 HP and manuals were 193 HP. The difference was a slightly larger combustion chamber in the manual trans engines.


"P" code was used on pass. cars and T-Birds. There were no other CALIBRATION changes. I don't consider a different air cleaner or valve covers as calibrtion items because they are not. Calibration changes are something that changes the performance.


Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

There is a definite echo in here if you look at post #4.

There were two different HP rated 292's in '55. Auto trans was 198 HP and manuals were 193 HP. The difference was a slightly larger combustion chamber in the manual trans engines.

"P" code was used on pass. cars and T-Birds. There were no other CALIBRATION changes. I don't consider a different air cleaner or valve covers as calibrtion items because they are not. Calibration changes are something that changes the performance.

Sal

Sal, the three different 1955 292's (ECJ and INTERCEPTOR) are described fully in the 1955 SHOP MANUAL. The MERC 292 might have had a completely different calibration but one would need a MERC SHOP MANUAL to find out.

The ENGINE CODE CHART showed the first go-around was from the 49/59 MPC FINAL ISSUE while the 2nd was most likely from a parts listing before that.

Below is a more readable 1955 ENGINE CODE CHART -
(And is also from a CVA compilation sheet)

P only identifies which engine size the car was assembled with. You would need an ENGINE ID TAG to break it (assembly detail/calibration) down fully. The 1955 292 INTERCEPTOR was rated @ 188HP.

[grumppyoldman]

Thanks all, now I'm loaded for bear when I get a chance to go look at it. Al

[scicala]

KULTULZ,


I just looked at my '55 shop manual. I'm talking about 292's only. There are two different 292's offered in '55 (calibration-wise). One with 8.1:1 comp ratio and one with 8.5:1 comp ratio. The manual said nothing using the word calibration.
The differences between Police Interceptor and ECJ are a revised dipstick location in block, air cleaner style for hood clearance, water pump spacer and aluminum valve covers if ordered the dress up kit on ECJ's. Carb numbers were different, but same air flow size.
So in my mind there are two different calibrations only because of the comp. ratios.
All intakes, carb sizes, camshafts were the same. Only difference was comp ratios between auto's and manuals.


Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

KULTULZ,

I just looked at my '55 shop manual. I'm talking about 292's only. There are two different 292's offered in '55 (calibration-wise). One with 8.1:1 comp ratio and one with 8.5:1 comp ratio. The manual said nothing using the word calibration.

The differences between Police Interceptor and ECJ are a revised dipstick location in block, air cleaner style for hood clearance, water pump spacer and aluminum valve covers if ordered the dress up kit on ECJ's. Carb numbers were different, but same air flow size.

So in my mind there are two different calibrations only because of the comp. ratios.

All intakes, carb sizes, camshafts were the same. Only difference was comp ratios between auto's and manuals.

Sal

We must have different printing dates of the 1955 SHOP MANUAL. Mine is NOV 54. It may be that the info was deleted in later issues as the parts (some - not all) were only available through the POLICE INTERCEPTOR CATALOG, and actual engine service information may have been included in a separate manual..

1955 FORD CAR SHOP MANUAL

FORM 7098 -55

November 1954

PG 41

Chapter III – Part One – POWER PLANT

The 8-cylinder, 292 cubic inch engine is used in the police interceptor unit and the ECJ version of the engine is used in the Thunderbird. Both engine models have a bore of 3.75 inches and a stroke of 3.30 inches.

The police interceptor engine has a 7.6:1 compression ratio.

The ECJ version has an 8.1:1 (Standard or Overdrive) and 8.5:1 (Fordomatic) compression ratio.

As for the term CALIBRATION - This was used in later years to describe how an engine was assembled. I am used to using the term as I was involved in later repair.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by scicala

...
The differences between Police Interceptor and ECJ are a revised dipstick location in block, air cleaner style for hood clearance, water pump spacer and aluminum valve covers if ordered the dress up kit on ECJ's. ...
All intakes, carb sizes, camshafts were the same. Only difference was comp ratios between auto's and manuals.
Sal

just adding to your parts list...
A 'full sized' car with dual exhaust and the T-Bird (dual exhaust) used a different left / drivers side exhaust manifold.
The T-Bird version arches above cyl #8 exhaust port and is tucked in closer to the engine, to clear the steering column.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by grumppyoldman

Thanks all, now I'm loaded for bear when I get a chance to go look at it.

Al

I thought your question was about it possibly being a P car. If it is, I would think it would be valuable.

Sorry about all the confusion and we would welcome photos.

[scicala]

Quote:
1955 FORD CAR SHOP MANUAL

FORM 7098 -55

November 1954

PG 41

Chapter III – Part One – POWER PLANT

The 8-cylinder, 292 cubic inch engine is used in the police interceptor unit and the ECJ version of the engine is used in the Thunderbird. Both engine models have a bore of 3.75 inches and a stroke of 3.30 inches.

The police interceptor engine has a 7.6:1 compression ratio.

The ECJ version has an 8.1:1 (Standard or Overdrive) and 8.5:1 (Fordomatic) compression ratio.




My '55 manual is also a Nov. 1954 publication. I agree with what you quoted from the manual on page 41, except for the fact that they are calling the 272 two barrel engine with 7.6:1 comp ratio, the police interceptor. In my mind, this is a mis-print and not true. They don't even list the 272 4 barrel engine.


Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

My '55 manual is also a Nov. 1954 publication. I agree with what you quoted from the manual on page 41, except for the fact that they are calling the 272 two barrel engine with 7.6:1 comp ratio, the police interceptor. In my mind, this is a mis-print and not true. They don't even list the 272 4 barrel engine.

Sal

I think you are reading the text incorrectly-

1955 FORD CAR SHOP MANUAL

FORM 7098 -55

November 1954

PG 41


Chapter III – Part One – POWER PLANT

The 8-cylinder 272 cubic inch engine used in the passenger car, has a bore of 3.62 inches and a stroke of 3.30 inches. It has a 7.6:1 compression ratio.

The 8-cylinder, 292 cubic inch engine is used in the police interceptor unit and the ECJ version of the engine is used in the Thunderbird. Both engine models have a bore of 3.75 inches and a stroke of 3.30 inches. The police interceptor engine has a 7.6:1 compression ratio. The ECJ version has an 8.1:1 (Standard or Overdrive) and 8.5:1 (Fordomatic) compression ratio.

1955 FORD SHOP MANUAL

PG 336

Chapter II – Specifications

6. ENGINES

272

U – HP – STD & OD 162 (2V)
U – HP – FORDOMATIC 162 (2V)
M – HP - Special – 182 (4V)

What the ENGINE CODE CHART (as shown in the PARTS MANUAL) is showing, is that both U-CODES 272's are the same engine as to trans usage. Usually, FORD had a slightly more powerful engine for AT applications to compensate for the AT drag and power loss.

The M-CODE (4V 182HP SPECIAL) (also increased CR) must have come online after the first SHOP MANUAL PRINTING - NOV 54 - or introduced through a dealer service letter). Like the parts manuals, the service manuals were updated quarterly and any revised service procedure upgrades were included in SERVICE LETTERS until text revision, akin to TSB's of today.

The 1955 272 182HP 'POWER PACK' was released to counter the 1955 CHEV 265 'POWER PACK' engine.

[scicala]

In real life, no Police Interceptor engine in '55 had a 7.6:1 comp ratio is all I'm saying.


Evidently the manual was printed too early to show what really happened.


Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

In real life, no Police Interceptor engine in '55 had a 7.6:1 comp ratio is all I'm saying.

Evidently the manual was printed too early to show what really happened.

Sal

1955 FORD CAR SHOP MANUAL

FORM 7098 -55

November 1954

PG 41

Chapter III – Part One – POWER PLANT

The 8-cylinder 272 cubic inch engine used in the passenger car, has a bore of 3.62 inches and a stroke of 3.30 inches. It has a 7.6:1 compression ratio.

Documentation?

Whenever I post something, it is usually with documentation. If I post something incorrectly, I will apologize and give a reason.

Why would the 1955 P INTERCEPTOR ENGINE not have a 7.6:1 CR? The ECJ was not that much more.

The ECJ required premium fuel. The INTERCEPTOR did not as most government fleets used their fuel stocks for all vehicles (gasoline). The 7.6:1 CR only required regular gasoline.

There are differences between POLICE and HP engines.