FS electronic ignition

[briphaeton]

No additional control box, it' all in the distributor. It's magnetic like the pertronix unit.
There are three wires, the blue goes to the negative side of the coil and the black with the yellow tracer go to the positive side of the coil and last a ground (one without a eyelet).
Of coarse it has to be 12 volt negative ground.

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

I don't know why so many people have a problem with electronic ignition in a Model A. Electronic ignition has been around since the middle 70's and is very reliable. The Pertronix Ignitor II module is pretty bulletproof if installed correctly(dedicated ground from distributor to battery). After installation, your timing doesn't change EVER due to point block wear. In the rare instance that the module does fail(hasn't happened to me), it's easily changed on the roadside. A spare module cost less than the value of a spare distributor many Model A'ers carry "just in case". I'm adding a note I got from Mel Mallory of FS Ignitions just before I bought my Zipper distributor in 2008. The Pertronix module is extremely reliable and I have nearly 10 years and 15,000 miles on this ignition setup with absolutely NO PROBLEMS. How many times have you "points guys" adjusted your points and fiddled with your timing in that time period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..............See Mels note below.

Al,

I'm restoring my 1966 Porsche 912 (4 cylinder) and was considering a Pertronix unit they advertise for the 912. I was talking to a guy that put one in his 1986 Porsche 911 (6 cylinder). He said he had nothing but trouble with the module and went back to the original points set up after the third one went out. I don't know if there is a difference between the 4 and 6 cylinder versions, or if they have improved it since then.

David Serrano

[Corley]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

No additional control box, it' all in the distributor. It's magnetic like the pertronix unit.
There are three wires, the blue goes to the negative side of the coil and the black with the yellow tracer go to the positive side of the coil and last a ground (one without a eyelet).
Of coarse it has to be 12 volt negative ground.

Thanks for that information. On the rockauto site I see they list a ballast resister, and only points style dizzies, but I was able to find the electronic one on ebay and ordered from there. The question is: Did Honda use a ballast resister with their coil on the electronic dizzies? Of course the coil may be something special for this application, and not the same as a points ignition coil, I'll look at sourcing that next. Cap and rotor look the same for both electronic and points in the pictures, I'll try to confirm that as well. Electronic dizzy on Ebay was $24.95, free shipping. Machining changes needed should be trivial.

[briphaeton]

I think ballast resisters are only for 12 volt ignition system with points (either in line or built into the coil). You wouldn't need ballast resister on a 6 volt car because it's already 6 volts. The coil, cap and rotor, I use was the one from the wrecker from the Honda the distributor came from.

[Corley]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

I think ballast resisters are only for 12 volt ignition system with points (either in line or built into the coil). You wouldn't need ballast resister on a 6 volt car because it's already 6 volts. The coil, cap and rotor, I use was the one from the wrecker from the Honda the distributor came from.

So in your case, 12v with electronic dizzy, you did not need the ballast then. That will also be what I'm planning on doing. Thanks again for all this information... Can't wait to try the vacuum advance.


Different subject:
Here is a good reason to go with 12v systems: With 2-12v batteries, and a good set of jumper cables, one can do quite effective welds on the side of the road, using 6013 0r 7014 rod. It would take 4-6v batteries to do this, and finding 3 other guys willing to loan you their batteries and jumpers for this purpose would be much harder than finding just one other person to loan you a 12v battery. I've actually done this back in my sand buggy days, and with great success. (He says with half a tongue in cheek.)

[AL in NY]

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California Travieso: like the note from Mel said, the newer Pertronix Ignitor II is much better than the original. But you still have to follow the installation instructions and run a ground wire from the negative side of the Ignitor module to battery ground. If you do that, I'll guarantee you'll have NO trouble with it.

[California Travieso]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

California Travieso: like the note from Mel said, the newer Pertronix Ignitor II is much better than the original. But you still have to follow the installation instructions and run a ground wire from the negative side of the Ignitor module to battery ground. If you do that, I'll guarantee you'll have NO trouble with it.

Thank Al, Its good to know they have improved. I'll check into it.

David Serrano

[katy]

briphaeton, could you do resistance check on the primary of that Honda coil that you're using to let Corely know for sure what type of coil to use. 1.5 or 3 ohm.

[briphaeton]

I get between 2 - 2.5 ohms on the primary circuit (which is what I found correct for 12v in Les andrews blue book). Be sure you disconnect the distributor before testing or it will blow out. I found this online---
In simple terms coils are rated by their primary resistance—less resistance in the primary windings of the coil allows more current to flow, which makes a stronger magnetic field. When the points open (or the electronic device that controls current flow shuts off) the magnetic field collapses and makes a spark in the secondary windings. It stands to reason that more current in the primary is a good thing, however the current flow is limited by the ability of the points, or the electronics in place, to handle it. Too little resistance means too much current flow, which can burn up points and damage electronic components.
For specific recommendations we contacted our pal, Don Lindfors, at PerTronix to get the straight story on coils. As he explains, PerTronix offers three oil-filled, canister-style coils and they are identified by the ignition system they are suited for:
The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms. The 3.0-ohm coil should be used on PerTronix Ignitors installed on four- and six-cylinder engines while 1.5-ohm coils should be used for eight-cylinder applications. These coils can be used on virtually any inductive (non-capacitive discharge) ignition system.
Flame Thrower II coils have lower resistance, 0.6 ohms for use with Ignitor II ignition systems as well as many other high-energy ignitions. The low resistance helps to produce up to 45,000 V. This higher voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power and better fuel economy. Flame-Thrower III coils were developed for use with the new Ignitor III electronics. The extremely low resistance of 0.32 ohms results in 45,000 V and a coil that charges to peak, current typically 30-70 percent faster the other coils. It should be noted that these coils are compatible with Ignitor III electronics only.

[duke36]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

I get between 2 - 2.5 ohms on the primary circuit (which is what I found correct for 12v in Les andrews blue book). Be sure you disconnect the distributor before testing or it will blow out. I found this online---
In simple terms coils are rated by their primary resistance—less resistance in the primary windings of the coil allows more current to flow, which makes a stronger magnetic field. When the points open (or the electronic device that controls current flow shuts off) the magnetic field collapses and makes a spark in the secondary windings. It stands to reason that more current in the primary is a good thing, however the current flow is limited by the ability of the points, or the electronics in place, to handle it. Too little resistance means too much current flow, which can burn up points and damage electronic components.
For specific recommendations we contacted our pal, Don Lindfors, at PerTronix to get the straight story on coils. As he explains, PerTronix offers three oil-filled, canister-style coils and they are identified by the ignition system they are suited for:
The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms. The 3.0-ohm coil should be used on PerTronix Ignitors installed on four- and six-cylinder engines while 1.5-ohm coils should be used for eight-cylinder applications. These coils can be used on virtually any inductive (non-capacitive discharge) ignition system.
Flame Thrower II coils have lower resistance, 0.6 ohms for use with Ignitor II ignition systems as well as many other high-energy ignitions. The low resistance helps to produce up to 45,000 V. This higher voltage allows larger spark plug gaps for added power and better fuel economy. Flame-Thrower III coils were developed for use with the new Ignitor III electronics. The extremely low resistance of 0.32 ohms results in 45,000 V and a coil that charges to peak, current typically 30-70 percent faster the other coils. It should be noted that these coils are compatible with Ignitor III electronics only.

Disconnect both wires to coil ? what " blows out" ,the coil, the module?

[briphaeton]

Module, just like the pertronic if you connect them up wrong.

[Kahuna]

With a Pertronix module, if you hook it up wrong & are watching it when turned on, you will see a small puff of smoke. It's now done, put a fork in it

[Corley]

Originally Posted by briphaeton

I get between 2 - 2.5 ohms on the primary circuit (which is what I found correct for 12v in Les andrews blue book). Be sure you disconnect the distributor before testing or it will blow out.

I seriously doubt that the low voltage/current supplied by your VOM would blow the module out, if left connected to the coil, however you are still correct in saying the coil needs to be disconnected prior to metering. The reason being that you will likely get an erronious reading if the module or source are still in the circuit. And of course, if the coil had any voltage on it, you'd likely burn up your meter if it we're on an ohms setting. (It's pretty much always necessary to remove electrical components from their circuit when measuring resistance for accurate readings and protection of your instruments.)

Now when using your finger to check for voltage, I recommend licking it first.��(only kidding, of course, don't use your finger to check voltages.)


By the way, thanks for all the Honda vacuum advance information! I really appreciate your taking the time to post about it.

[katy]

It's now done, put a fork in it

Good one

[FRANK PKNY]

I think part of the problem with electronic ignitions is theydon't like dirty voltage. You really should run a alternator when using them. Generators make what's called dirty voltage. ( spikes up and down). I've been running them for years problem free. They do require the correct voltage getting to them, a 12v system needs around a minimum of about 9+ or - volts or it will not fire. I have a L S system in my 31 coupe with their coil .

[barkleydave]

I am tired of hearing about Electronic Ignition failure. It is not the fault of the product in 99 percent of the cases. I have several cars running more than 40,000 miles on orig. Pertronix ignition modules. NO FAILURES


1. Proper coil 1.4 Ohm 6 volt or 1.4 Ohm with external ballast resistor 12 VOLT
2. 3.0 coil no resistor 12 vOLT
3. No pop out switch.
4. Wire through on off switch DIRECTLY TO BATTERY! dO NOT RUN THROUGH A GEN. CIRCUIT IT IS VERY DIRTY POWER.
5. Clean Ground if needed add an additional ground from Dist.


That's it folks they work!
Every tour I have ever been on I have never seen a module failure but cannot begin to count the oil point system failures on tours. I carry a spare module one has been in the tool box for 18 years!


Use what you like but do not bash a product when they work but or installed incorrectly.


There I feel better.. LOL

[Pete F]

In the last 10 years I have installed probably over 100 plus Pertronix units , out of the 100 plus units one failed after 10 miles and one failed on the distributor machine when I was setting up the curve.
Both were positive ground units.
Here is what I tell my clients , I will only install a Pertronix unit with a Pertronix coil and I only use radio resistant wires and we have no problem.
And to all my anti electronic buddy’s I ask what’s under the hood of your daily driver.
When all the major car builders go back to points I maybe will change my mind.
Electronic ignition gives you a hotter spark which allows you to run a leaner mixture which allows the engine to run better and pollute the oil Less.


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[steve s]

Originally Posted by Pete F

In the last 10 years I have installed probably over 100 plus Pertronix units , out of the 100 plus units one failed after 10 miles and one failed on the distributor machine when I was setting up the curve.
Both were positive ground units.
Here is what I tell my clients , I will only install a Pertronix unit with a Pertronix coil and I only use radio resistant wires and we have no problem.
And to all my anti electronic buddy’s I ask what’s under the hood of your daily driver.
When all the major car builders go back to points I maybe will change my mind.
Electronic ignition gives you a hotter spark which allows you to run a leaner mixture which allows the engine to run better and pollute the oil Less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pete,
Where do you get your radio resistant wires? Can you tell by looking if the ones in the picture are them?

Thanks!

Steve

[Pete F]

Pertronix has radio resistant wire by the foot or universal.


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[Benson]

In the literature for the Zipper it states that solid brass strips for plugs are included.

BUT it also says that the wire from coil to dist cap is a special radio suppression wire.

I wonder if Zipper has some kind of radio suppression circuit built into the dist body maybe?


Quote from description:

""Your Zipper comes with a high energy heavy duty coil, a radio suppression coil wire, a set of 4 brass spark plug connectors, a dedicated ignition wire, and of course, complete installation instructions, a trouble-shooting guide, and a 30-month warranty.""

Here is URL: http://www.fsignitions.com/FSI_ZIPPER.html

According to this the wires to plugs used are solid brass and ONLY coil to dist wire is radio suppression.