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Old 04-28-2020, 11:41 PM   #1
Will D
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Default Serial number curiosity

Bored waiting for parts to arrive to finish rebuilding my rear end and I started looking into the serial numbers on the car. Im a little puzzled as to what is up if anyone may know?

The body is 1938 ford deluxe Fordor. The rear is 1938 ford. The serial number on the left frame rail matches the serial number on the trans but according to vp and other websites it is a 1936 Lincoln zephyr serial number.

Is the frame of a 1936 Lincoln zephyr compatible with 1938 ford deluxe Fordor body? Or did someone add the serial number on the frame to match the trans? Any guess?

The trans serial number is H14696(star) but on the frame is (star)H(star)14696(star)
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Old 04-28-2020, 11:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

I'm no expert, but they do not look like the font
Ford used.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

J...…….That stamping DOES appear to match the EARLY font that Ford used up until early '38 I believe it was, when the more-secure font was introduced, as seen here compliments of Mac VanPelt.


We know that the serial numbers were first stamped on the transmission, and THAT transmission number was then stamped on the chassis that it ended-up being installed in. I wonder if possibly that trans ended-up on a V8 engine after it was removed from a possibly defective or damaged Zephyr V-12. The bolt patterns are the same! That number equates to a very late production '36 Lincoln Zephyr. It's possible that trans was removed from the Lincoln block, sat in a "holding for disposition" area until someone (MANY months later) said bolt that trans to a NEW V8 coming down the line, and get it outa here! Henry wasted NOTHING!! DD





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Old 04-29-2020, 08:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

With respect, notice to the dealers of that change in the font for 1, 6, and 9 took place in the February, 1931 Service Bulletin, more than a year before the production of the first V8. I do not know if an additional change took place in 1938 or later, but its highly unlikely that Ford reverted to the pre-'31 font that shows on the subject transmission.
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Old 04-29-2020, 08:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Quote:
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With respect, notice to the dealers of that change in the font for 1, 6, and 9 took place in the February, 1931 Service Bulletin, more than a year before the production of the first V8. I do not know if an additional change took place in 1938 or later, but its highly unlikely that Ford reverted to the pre-'31 font that shows on the subject transmission.
Dave, At least through 1940, the characters remained as you describe.
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Old 04-29-2020, 08:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Will D didn't mention if the numbers shown match the title for the 38 Ford. Does his title say Lincoln? Even if Lincoln used the Old stamps, it doesn't explain why those numbers are on the frame and trans of a Ford. I think somebody with a set of the old stamps did that to make people scratch their heads.
Also, Is that how a Lincoln number appears with a star on each side of the H? Was this car built in Canada? I had a 33 frame from Canada that the VIN started with C18H.This certainly brings up lots of questions.
It is also possible someone with at 36 Lincoln title stamped those numbers on the car they had no title to so it could be sold to a Canadian and taken across the border. The people checking don't know an old Ford from a Lincoln and only look at the numbers.
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Old 04-29-2020, 09:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
With respect, notice to the dealers of that change in the font for 1, 6, and 9 took place in the February, 1931 Service Bulletin, more than a year before the production of the first V8. I do not know if an additional change took place in 1938 or later, but its highly unlikely that Ford reverted to the pre-'31 font that shows on the subject transmission.

David.....I know that you're correct on that 1931 date, and I knew that my '38 date just didn't sound right when I wrote it, AND....it was past my bedtime when I wrote that. Sorry for any serious confusion, folks! This one is all conjecture and supposition at this point, anyway! What do I know? DD
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
Will D didn't mention if the numbers shown match the title for the 38 Ford. Does his title say Lincoln? Even if Lincoln used the Old stamps, it doesn't explain why those numbers are on the frame and trans of a Ford. I think somebody with a set of the old stamps did that to make people scratch their heads.
Also, Is that how a Lincoln number appears with a star on each side of the H? Was this car built in Canada? I had a 33 frame from Canada that the VIN started with C18H.This certainly brings up lots of questions.
It is also possible someone with at 36 Lincoln title stamped those numbers on the car they had no title to so it could be sold to a Canadian and taken across the border. The people checking don't know an old Ford from a Lincoln and only look at the numbers.

The registration and insurance has the body serial number not the frame number. Registration says 38 Ford Fordor.

The motor from what I can tell is a 1946 v8 flathead possibly a merc. Heads say C59A, distributor is 1946 with rabbit ear cap, block is dark green. The only markings on block are right side of bell housing is a circle with raised J 15 G(or 6)(hard to make out) with a large "1" beside the circle. On the bottom right side of the block by the petcock is raised J 5.

Anyone have a Lincoln you can tell me if your frame serial number has a star on either side of the H?

If i get ambitious maybe I'll try to get access to the other 2 frame numbers...
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

i've never seen one with a third star in the middle. should be a dash, or a double arrow there.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

What do you mean by "body serial number"? I'm not familiar with that term.
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:53 AM   #11
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Mike,


Ford of Canada did not produce Lincoln automobiles during the period in question. It is only in very recent times some Lincolns have been assembled at the Oakville, Ontario plant, namely the MKT and MKX (renamed Nautilus for the 2020 model year).
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:55 AM   #12
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i've never seen one with a third star in the middle. should be a dash, or a double arrow there.

Should'a, would'a, could'a! No matter how THIS one turns-out, there's one fact we should all NEVER forget....and that is that these numbers are ALL hand-stamped...by HUMANOIDS! It doesn't matter that there were rules and procedures in place for stamping all those numbers, because SOME human somewhere is gonna momentarily forget, overlook, disregard, re-invent, experiment with, be distracted from, or just downright don't give a crap about "the rules" for stamping numbers the way they SHOULD be. It's just one element of the way that God designed the human equation to function. So, any STAMPED number on these old used cars SHOULD be expected to follow published form....or not! DD
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Old 04-29-2020, 10:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Quote:
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What do you mean by "body serial number"? I'm not familiar with that term.
There is a 6 digit number punched in the left(drivers) side of the fire wall. Maybe was marked by ICBC (insurance corp of British Columbia) when BC registration was done..

I have read some info regarding body serial numbers but they never match frame and trans numbers.
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

What is the location of this "body number" and what is the prefix of the number? Does it have stars in front and back? Or is was that number placed on the body by a state motor vehicle department?
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Old 04-29-2020, 11:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Interesting if that is the number that is displayed as the VIN on your title instead of what is stamped on the frame and transmission. Wonder why that was done. Did the car have a Canadian or US title when you purchased it, and was that the accepted VIN at that time? Pretty unusual situation.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
What do you mean by "body serial number"? I'm not familiar with that term.
Here is a quote from a Kube post re body numbers:
a few closed cars (1940) have been witnessed with numbers stamped in to their dash panel sheet metal. The coupe I am currently restoring has this - I've zero clue what the numbers signify.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
Interesting if that is the number that is displayed as the VIN on your title instead of what is stamped on the frame and transmission. Wonder why that was done. Did the car have a Canadian or US title when you purchased it, and was that the accepted VIN at that time? Pretty unusual situation.
Was wondering the same. Canadian, I am the 3rd owner that I know of since restoration.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:49 PM   #18
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What is the location of this "body number" and what is the prefix of the number? Does it have stars in front and back? Or is was that number placed on the body by a state motor vehicle department?
Left side fire wall. 5B2633 no star.
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Old 04-29-2020, 05:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Ford of Canada used H as a prefix in 1938 so it's definitely a Canadian car. Here is a link.
http://www.wnyrg.org/canvins.html
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Old 04-29-2020, 06:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Serial number curiosity

Most Canadian Ford-built bodies had their body number stamped into the firewall with no stars before or after.
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