business coupe's oval window

[Vin-tin]

I found this picture while on the web. It might even belong to someone on here. I always thought the oval windows were flat glass. Not beveled.
This cant be original, or did they have both flat and beveled depending when it was built?

[700rpm]

Mine are flat.

[Vin-tin]

Does anyone know if they also came with beveled glass.

[ronn]

I have a pair that supposedly came from a 29 business coupe and they are beveled..............

[DougVieyra]

The early photos I have seen from the '20's - 30's show them to be beveled.

[woodiewagon46]

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All Business Coupe windows that I have ever seen are flat. The window frames in the picture are not correct also. If you look at the picture you can see the screws that anchor the frames to the glass and fabric. The Business Coupe frames have screws from the inside and can't be seen from the outside. Also the frame in the picture is not in the correct position, it is too high and looks too small. I can give you the correct measurements if you need them.

[Vin-tin]

Originally Posted by DougVieyra

The early photos I have seen from the '20's - 30's show them to be beveled.

Do you have any photos that you could post here?

[Vin-tin]

I talked to a guy who says this stuff is original.

[woodiewagon46]

The brackets may be, but the window frames do not look like Ford items. The Business Coupe oval window frames had 12 screws that attached from the inside of the car. The frames pictured only have 8 screws. Over the years I have seen several bogus oval shaped window frames installed in standard Business Coupes to make them look like the rarer "oval window" Business Coupe. I have owned mine since 1970 and every time I see one I go over the car and talk to the owner and have never seen one with beveled glass or different frames than the one on my car unless it isn't real. Check out the Sept./Oct.issue of the Model A News for an article on one of the nicest Business Coupes I have ever seen.

[Steve Plucker]

The only light I can shed on this subject is that the oval window business coupe is by far the best looking coupe body Ford ever did.

As far as the windows being oval or flat...the answer is at the Ford Archives. The part number is A-54124 Glass (quarter light). To settle this dilima, get the Part Release for this part...That just might tell you if the window went from oval to flat OR flat to oval. If the window was flat or oval all through 1929 then the part release might not be enough and then you will be needing to view the drawings. You can have someone On-Site do that for you but it will cost $35.00 to do so.

This goes for the frames also: A-54120 Frame (quarter light) assembly--outside; and A-54125 Frame (quarter light) inside. This will tell us the number of screw holes. Maybe, just maybe, there was a change sometime in 1929..who knows but the archives and their drawings of the part.

There has to be quite a few originals out there to tell us the true story.

Pluck

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Vin-tin

I talked to a guy who says this stuff is original.

If you can give us the dimensions of these windows we can compare them with what we have and may be able to make a determination that way. The bevelled windows I have seen were smaller than originals, but I have only seen two cars like that.

I just measured mine, which I am pretty sure are original, and they measure 14"x9". They are not bevelled, and the have 12 screws attached from the inside.

The braces in your photo look correct, but may be repros, which I understand were being made a few years ago, though I have never seen an actual set.

Here are a couple photos that show a correctly restored car and an original vintage shot. You can see the approx. size and placement, and the glass appears to be flat in both pictures.

[700rpm]

Here are a few more for reference.

[woodiewagon46]

Measured mine and they are about the same as 700rpm, 8 and 15/16" x 13 and 15/16" as measured at the widest point of the oval. Inner dimensions are 7 and 9/16" x 12 and 9/16" and the width of the frame is about 11/16". I would love to know how many "oval window" Business Coupes are still around. I have owned mine since 1970 and have never been able to get an answer. Part of the problem is that Ford did not keep records of Standard Business Coupes and ones that had the "oval window" option. I'm told by several "oval window" owners that the general consensus is less than 50. Any ideas?

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

Measured mine and they are about the same as 700rpm, 8 and 15/16" x 13 and 15/16" as measured at the widest point of the oval. Inner dimensions are 7 and 9/16" x 12 and 9/16" and the width of the frame is about 11/16". I would love to know how many "oval window" Business Coupes are still around. I have owned mine since 1970 and have never been able to get an answer. Part of the problem is that Ford did not keep records of Standard Business Coupes and ones that had the "oval window" option. I'm told by several "oval window" owners that the general consensus is less than 50. Any ideas?

But Ford DID keep records of the Business Coupe. (See the Ford Assembly Record Types for 1928-1931 for more information).

Starting between April and May 1928 through 1928, Ford produced 37343 USA and 258 Foriegn. In 1929, Ford produced 37644 USA and 933 Foriegn. In 1930 Ford produced 110 Foriegn.

It is a known fact that Ford went from the 1928 models (those without the oval window) to the 1929 models (those with the oval window). Just WHEN that occured is unknown...again, the answer is at the Ford Archives by viewing the Part Releases and Drawings of those items.

Pluck

[Vin-tin]

Originally Posted by woodiewagon46

Measured mine and they are about the same as 700rpm, 8 and 15/16" x 13 and 15/16" as measured at the widest point of the oval. Inner dimensions are 7 and 9/16" x 12 and 9/16" and the width of the frame is about 11/16". I would love to know how many "oval window" Business Coupes are still around. I have owned mine since 1970 and have never been able to get an answer. Part of the problem is that Ford did not keep records of Standard Business Coupes and ones that had the "oval window" option. I'm told by several "oval window" owners that the general consensus is less than 50. Any ideas?

I wasn't aware there was an "option" to get an oval window.
The 1928, and possibly early 1929 did not have the oval windows at all, as far as I know. The rest of 1929 they had the windows.
Correct me if i'm wrong.

[Vin-tin]

Ahh Pluck. You beat me to it.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

But Ford DID keep records of the Business Coupe.

Starting between April and May 1928 through 1928, Ford produced 37343 USA and 258 Foriegn. In 1929, Ford produced 37644 USA and 933 Foriegn. In 1930 Ford produced 110 Foriegn.

It is a known fact that Ford went from the 1928 modles (those without the oval window) to the 1929 modles (those with the oval window). Just WHEN that occured is unknown...again, the answer is at the Ford Archives by viewing the Part Releases and Drawings of those items.

Pluck

Thanks Pluck for that info and research

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

Thanks Pluck for that info and research

I am not done yet...

According to the data at the Ford Archives, A-54124 (quarter glass) has only two (2) drawing dates related to it. EI #10700 dated October 26, 1928 and EI #12977 dated June 19, 1929.

Now without actually viewing the Part Releases and Drawings could this be, if in fact it was, a change from flat glass to beveled glass or vis versa OR something different? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????

The A-54120 (quarter light frame outside assembly) only has one (1) drawing date related to it. EI # 10700 October 26, 1928.

The A-54125 (quarter light frame inside assembly) has four (4) dates related to it.

Apparently there was a change right off the bat as there is a A-54125-A1 and A-54125-A2. Both have the EI # 10700 and a October 26, 1928 date.

Then there were two other changes associated with it. EI #12006 February 14, 1929 and EI # 12426 March 27, 1929.

Just what these changes are I have no idea...Again, the answers are at the Ford Archives.

The one date that all three of these parts have in common is October 26, 1928...So it is plausable that the oval window may have made its appearence sometime in November/December 1928...Maybe not.

Anyone can get this information off of the MAFFI website for almost any Model A Part.

Pluck

[Vin-tin]

Thanks for that Pluck. You're amazing.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Vin-tin

Thanks for that Pluck. You're amazing.

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