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Old 06-25-2019, 10:48 AM   #21
Benson
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

Dave,

That must be a drilled crank to feed rods?

What is the ID diameter of the popoff valve?






Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in MN View Post
The attached photo shows an alternate way to decrease the oil pressure to the rear main bearing. The installed pop off valve will keep some flow to the bearings and the modification is hidden from sight. If you are wondering about the carb jet you see: I have restricted the oil flow to the cam bearings in the photo by installing a carburetor jet... I am developing about 45# of operating oil pressure in the system.

I am not sure tapping three holes directly into the oil galley and drawing off oil flow will provide enough flow without being detrimental to your engine's bearings. Time will tell. Hope it works.
Good Day!
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Old 06-25-2019, 02:22 PM   #22
Dave in MN
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

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Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Dave,

That must be a drilled crank to feed rods?

What is the ID diameter of the popoff valve?
Yes, I use this system for drilled cranks that provide oil to the rods. When first assembled, I started out at 45 psi and then backed down when I added the second pop off.

I will need to measure the ID to answer your question.

Is it enough oil relief? Not enough to provide full relief of the high volume pump installed. I have another pop-off installed at the pump (see below) as the one included with the pump seems to open at about 60 psi and that is too much pressure IMO and for my purposes.
The small one I show in the earlier comment is set to open at 35. The one I have at the pump is set for about 37#. I found at higher rpm, the flow was greater than the single pop-off at the pump would flow. With the higher flow pump, I am able to maintain about 15 - 18 psi at normal warm idle and about 35# warm at about 2500 rpm.
When cold at start, the pressure is 38# and both pop offs are working to relieve pressure. With the single one on the pump, the pressure was spiking above 60 psi when cold. With the second smaller one added, it will not exceed 40 psi when cold unless you really rev the engine.
Through all this adjustment, there were no leaks at the rear main seal but likely because I have a SBC rear seal adaptation installed. The SBC seal holder is manufactured by Dan McEachern who resides in California.
The dippers you see on the rods are plugged with a set screw. I left the dippers on the rods as this engine is still in the testing phase and doing so allows me to re-use the rods for a dipper build by removing the plugs should I abandon the project.
Good Day!
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Last edited by Dave in MN; 06-26-2019 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:15 PM   #23
Benson
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

Dave,

Looks like Stipe oil pump and Stipe oil filter?

Have you ever installed the Stipe filter on a stock B with stock oil pump?

I suspect that the 3/16ths hole in front of oil galley which normally keeps dipper tray full with splash rods will have to be reduced some.

Rods should be OK as long as oil filter returns the oil to the front of the dipper tray?

Your setup looks like the B block build that we did in 1976.

We followed Dan Iandola's 1970 article in Hot Rod magazine.

Drilled crank and all standard sized crank was already cross drilled.

We increased the size of main and camshaft oil feed holes and replaced the "rolled steel oil feed pipes" to the main bearing saddles with larger push rod tubes.

Oil pump was stock A which we modified with the two "Half moon" pieces of brass brazed to top of pump to force all of the oil downward. Then drilled a hole in block so oil could be piped out of block and back into galley. Normal oil input hole in galley was plugged and of course the extra hole in the gasket!

3/16ths hole in front of galley was plugged and 0.060. Hole drilled.

Oil pressure was around 100 with cold engine and the valve chamber cover, the cast iron one was lifted and oil flooded chamber. Drilled and tapped extra 10 32 screws to hold down chamber cover

Partial solution was to drill hole in oil pump and weld on a V8 oil pump relief cut from V8 pump.

Still too much oil pressure when hot.

Then things went down hill from there!!

Oil leaks out rear main etc etc etc

Then water in the oil pan ... Cracks in roof of valve chamber, cracks from bore to valve seats. Etc etc. Stitched cracks.

Engine guy swore on a stack of Bibles that he magnefuxed the block like Ipaid $ 125 For.

In 1976 a stock B engine rebuild was about $600. When this mess got to $1800 and still no light the end of tunnel ...

The only light in the tunnel was on the front of the freight train coming from the other direction.

Finally I pulled the plug and built another totally stock B block which was standard everything. Came out 0.010, 0.010 and 0.040.

It has 40,000 and still no problems.

Last edited by Benson; 06-25-2019 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:28 PM   #24
johnneilson
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

Benson,


Welcome to Old Motors, and yes we still smile when we get one to stay together.
Jim Brierley has a pretty good book or two out on "A" and "B" motors complete with instructions on how to set up the oiling systems.


My block prep is a little bit different, I do drill the main feed holes from the galley to the tubes, but I restrict the cam feeds and 3/8" hole to the drive to 0.025.
I block the front galley hole over the timing gear and use no gasket on cover, but my cover is 3/4" thick, no additional holes drilled and tapped into block. I do add a 1/8" drain hole to the back of the rear side of the rear cam bearing to relieve the oil buildup. I typically run external oil pump, have run as much as 95 psi by accident and not had the rear main leak.


Glad to hear you are having success, and remember this. There are a lot of blocks that get magnafluxed, the key is to find one that passes the test........
I suspect yours did pass but was prone to cracking due to core shift and/or corrosion.


Best of luck, J
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:00 PM   #25
Benson
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

J,

Thanks I checked my notes from 1976.

rear main and front main were drilled 1/4 inch in galley.

Did enlarge tubes to bearing saddles. Local idea was that split tubes might leak.

Center main since feeding 2 rods 5/16ths

cam bearings plugged and number #60 drill bit.

Front galley plugged and #60 drill bit.

I suppose that I could have eventually gotten pressure under control and rear main sealed up but the expense of the cracks was the killer.





Quote:
Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
Benson,


Welcome to Old Motors, and yes we still smile when we get one to stay together.
Jim Brierley has a pretty good book or two out on "A" and "B" motors complete with instructions on how to set up the oiling systems.


My block prep is a little bit different, I do drill the main feed holes from the galley to the tubes, but I restrict the cam feeds and 3/8" hole to the drive to 0.025.
I block the front galley hole over the timing gear and use no gasket on cover, but my cover is 3/4" thick, no additional holes drilled and tapped into block. I do add a 1/8" drain hole to the back of the rear side of the rear cam bearing to relieve the oil buildup. I typically run external oil pump, have run as much as 95 psi by accident and not had the rear main leak.


Glad to hear you are having success, and remember this. There are a lot of blocks that get magnafluxed, the key is to find one that passes the test........
I suspect yours did pass but was prone to cracking due to core shift and/or corrosion.


Best of luck, J
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

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Originally Posted by bigdaddyslotrat View Post
Hi guys i have a question !! THIS IS A NEWLY BUILT MOTOR my oil leaks out the back of the motor is as follows, running at idle steady stream out the hole in the bell housing slightly higher rpms the leak seems to stop until you turn of the motor then a stream starts up again for about 4 table spoons of oil. ok this motor has about 1 hours running time and i did not build it! but was told by the builder himself that he changed the gears in the oil pump and it should make around 100 psi ?? will that much pressure make the oil leak out the back?? thank you all very much
Did your builder explain why he thought 100 lbs. oil pressure was a good thing?? And explain how changing pump gears would do it? What type of rear main seal did he use?
Did he come up with any other "tricks" that may cause problems later on?
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Old 06-26-2019, 07:19 AM   #27
Dave in MN
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Default Re: Help rear main leak

[QUOTE=Benson;1771373]Dave,

Looks like Stipe oil pump and Stipe oil filter?

Have you ever installed the Stipe filter on a stock B with stock oil pump?

I suspect that the 3/16ths hole in front of oil galley which normally keeps dipper tray full with splash rods will have to be reduced some.

Rods should be OK as long as oil filter returns the oil to the front of the dipper tray?

We are getting a bit off the subject of the original poster's questions but it appears he may feel comfortable with his modifications and reduced oil flow to the main bearings so a reply to your questions:

The oil pump and oil filter/valve chamber cover were supplied by Stipe Machine.
I have not used a standard B oil pump yet. I used the high volume pump to increase the pressure at lower rpms. I did install a drilled plug in the front of the oil galley that has a directional hole in it that sprays oil at the top of the cam gear rather than at its side.

The rods are supplied oil through the crankshaft so they do not need dipper oil.

So far, the following issues have surfaced:
Excessive oil mist from the crank vent/oil filler tube. Replaced it with a B breather made by Stipe. Problem solved.
The overhead valve head chews up the push rods at the push rod guides. I am sourcing (harder) hardened pushrods. The tips are hardened but not the sides where the guide contacts.
The block is being replaced as two of the three head studs that required Helicoils on the left side of the engine adjoining the exhaust headers developed a crack that travels to the closest water passage and out to the manifold/header mounting surface. I am building up a full pressure A block that has a B crank installed. (Mains ground just under 1.78") Hopefully, the A block will provide better service.

When I get the modified A block ready for assembly, I will start a thread with photos to share the project

In the meantime, I am building a somewhat stock B engine to use in the car while I finish the modifications on the overhead build.
Good Day!

Last edited by Dave in MN; 06-26-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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