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Old 01-12-2019, 04:53 PM   #1
Werner
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Default Ignition, way of

Hello,


I'm a new member. I'm from Germany. I have some questions. My first:


I have mounted the timing indicator scala. I read that - if the hand lever on highest position - the ignition point should be 5 - 10 degrees after piston highes position. If the hand lever is down the ignition point should be 30 - 35 degrees before highest piston position.


I measured the way of the hand lever. From high to low there are only 25 degrees area.


1) I think more than 25 degrees advance is bad, because the engine turns relativ low on highest rpm?
2) I think, for starting it's o. k. with 0 degrees?



Are that right? Or is it a mistake, that the handle lever only makes 25 degrees?


Thanks in advance for helping hints.
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Werner, the full movement of the lever from top to bottom gives 40 degrees of timing advance when measured at the crankshaft. Check the side of the distributor. The arm that comes out must move the full extent when the spark timing lever is moved from top to bottom. Start the engine with 0 degrees of advance, after it starts, use 15 degrees of advance (before TDC), and for normal driving use 30 degrees. Email to me at MAFCAJim@gmail.com with additional questions.

======

Werner, die volle Bewegung des Hebels von oben nach unten führt zu 40 Grad Timing Advance, gemessen an der Kurbelwelle. Überprüfen Sie die Seite des Verteilers. Der Arm, der herauskommt, muss sich vollständig bewegen, wenn der Zündhebel von oben nach unten bewegt wird. Starten Sie den Motor mit 0 Grad Vorwärtsbewegung, verwenden Sie nach dem Start 15 Grad Vorwärtsbewegung (vor dem oberen Totpunkt) und bei normalem Fahren 30 Grad. E-Mail an MAFCAJim@gmail.com mit zusätzlichen Fragen.

======
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Old 01-12-2019, 06:16 PM   #3
Chuck Dempsey
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Welcome to the group, Werner!
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Search YouTube for How to time a Model A. That should help. Good luck and welcome.
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

http://modelabasics.com/home.htm
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Welcome to the Model A World! visit Model A Basics site above- post #5
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:43 AM   #7
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

As mentioned, just set the timing the proper way [ using the timing pin] and then use your left hand to set the advance lever where you want it.
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Hello,


thanks at all for hints! I have checked the left hand lever again. On the crank is only 25 degrees way high/low.


I think, the problem is the mounted rod position from the lower steering arm to the distributor connecting rod.


The way of the lower steering arm is aproxximately 45 degrees. That seems o. k.



But the tangente way from the connecting rod is too low, because the steering arm on the beginning of the way shows nearly 180 degrees (=parallel) to the distributor rock. It's too far in the right end position. The first mooving degrees should too little way to the distributor rod.



I hope, it's understandig? My English is crazy, I know!



The pictures shows the lower arm in both end positions.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:17 AM   #9
Dick Steinkamp
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Werner,

With the distributor cap on and the advance rod connected, the upper plate should fully move in the distributor cap notch from stop to stop with the advance arm on the column moved from top to bottom. This is 20 degrees at the distributor and 40 degrees at the crank.

If your 1928 has been upgraded to the 29-31 two tooth steering column, you can loosen the steering jacket at the steering box and inside the cabin and turn the jacket until you get full range of motion on the upper distributor plate. If you still have the 1928 column, I don't believe there is any adjustment possible.
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Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 01-13-2019 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Hello Dick,


the steering gear is removed. It's the same with 7 teeth. If I check the ignition-lever-area, the 25° degrees are shown on the scala of the crankshaft wheel.
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Old 01-13-2019, 07:43 PM   #11
Dick Steinkamp
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Werner,
I apologize, but even with a name like Steinkamp, Ich habe nur ein bisschen Deutsch and I may not be completely understanding the problem you are having. However, your English is far better than my German!

If you are not seeing 40 degrees difference at the crank with the advance lever on the column moved top to bottom, try this.

Disconnect the rod that goes from the column to the distributor and move the lever at the distributor on the top plate that the rod normally connects to from one end of the "window" (notch) in the cap to the other. You should see 40 degrees different at the crank when you do this.

If you do see 40 degrees, then the problem is somehow the geometry of the rod between the distributor and the column...or the length of the rod.
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:10 PM   #12
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Those pictures show the lever at the column is not in the correct position. Try to rotate the steering column anti clockwise.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242010
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Old 01-13-2019, 11:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp View Post
Disconnect the rod that goes from the column to the distributor and move the lever at the distributor on the top plate that the rod normally connects to from one end of the "window" (notch) in the cap to the other. You should see 40 degrees different at the crank when you do this.

If you do see 40 degrees, then the problem is somehow the geometry of the rod between the distributor and the column...or the length of the rod.
^^^^^
Yes! Do this and report the results.

.
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Old 01-14-2019, 11:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksonlll View Post
Search YouTube for How to time a Model A. That should help. Good luck and welcome.
Actually I would be real careful getting information from You Tube. I have seen several how to videos of self proclaimed experts showing various repair jobs and they really have no concept of the correct way.
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Old 01-14-2019, 01:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Werner, Hello and welcome. Please confirm what you have as to the steering column and steering box. Do you have the 7 tooth worm where the steering box and column are one assembly? Or do you have a modified steering box attached to the tube of a seven tooth steering? If you have the stock tube and box that are one assembly, there is no adjustment possible. Then, the problem must be, as Jim above describes. Is your distributor the stock ford unit?
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:44 PM   #16
Werner
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Hello all together.

Thank for helping. It's an original 7-teeth steering without adjustment. The distributor is original Ford.

Mike's suspicion in # 12 is correct. The steering rod its start position is too flat.

Look please my drawing and both picures from yesterday for better understanding.

I don't know, why the position from steering lever to steering rod is wrong.
Tomorrow I try to twist the shaft ca. 20 degrees. I hope it doesn't burst.


Or I short the linking point from the distributer arm.
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Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
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Old 01-14-2019, 03:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

The control arms are pined to the control rods...





My guess is that the pin will sheer if you try to twist it into a better position.

I wonder if someone in the past used the wrong control rod for the spark advance control rod, or the wrong control arm?
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:20 PM   #18
Werner
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Guten Tag Herr Steinkamp!

Thank you for the hint that the pin can sheering away. On your picture I can see, that the rod's end ist round. Therefore I can make an other whole with 20 ° degree deviation.


Schöne Grüße vom Aachener Land.
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Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Guten Tag Herr Steinkamp!

Thank you for the hint that the pin can sheering away. On your picture I can see, that the rod's end ist round. Therefore I can make an other whole with 20 ° degree deviation.


Schöne Grüße vom Aachener Land.
Good solution. Let us know how it works out for you.

Best wishes from the Pacific Northwest.
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Last edited by Dick Steinkamp; 01-14-2019 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:53 PM   #20
Werner
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Default Re: Ignition, way of

Hello,


yes, I will do it if that little "problem" has fixed.



At this time I mount a new rear spring and I'm surchin' 4 new shock adsorbers.


So long!
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