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Old 09-10-2019, 12:24 PM   #1
adileo
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Default On the horn now

Hi

As previously mention my horn is not working.

Today I put test light on relay. It has two hot leads and one I assume ground.

When I jump each hot to ground the horn does not blow. It, for lack of better words, shutters.

What does this tell me and what is suggested for next steps?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:54 PM   #2
drolston
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Default Re: On the horn now

Connect a volt meter set on the 10 volt DC scale between a bare spot on the horn itself and a good chassis ground, or the battery ground strap. Push the horn button and watch the volt meter. If it jumps, the horn ground has electrical resistance. If so, clean the horn ground where it mounts to be sure the connections have not corroded. If the horn ground is okay, touch a wire (at least 16 gauge) directly from battery to the output side of the horn relay, the wire that goes to the horn. If the horn does not blow correctly, the problem is in the horn. It will have to be disassembled so you can run some emery paper between the points to clean them. If that does not fix the problem, the windings within the horn coils may have deteriorated, in which case the horn will probably need to be replaced.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: On the horn now

Oops on the assumption.

There are three relay leads: horn button, the horn(s), and power (usually from the hot side of the solenoid). The horn itself is grounded (typically with the mounting but a separate ground wire can also be used).

https://www.google.com/search?q=ford...lY5VBsWohSHAM:
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Old 09-10-2019, 01:04 PM   #4
adileo
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Default Re: On the horn now

I should have mentioned the 39 has two horn pipes. I assume the two hot leads on the relay - one for each
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Old 09-10-2019, 02:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: On the horn now

There should be three terminals on the horn relay. Power in from the starter solenoid, Ground wire to the horn button & the lead to the horn(s). Both horns should connect to the same terminal on the horn relay. The diagram if for a (-) ground system, the (+) ground diagram would be the same except the BAT terminal would be marked (-).
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File Type: jpg Flathead_Electrical_wiring1939std.jpg (63.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Horn Relay.jpg (34.4 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by JSeery; 09-10-2019 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:05 PM   #6
petehoovie
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Default Re: On the horn now

Horn relay circuit:

Positive ground, of course....




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Old 09-10-2019, 04:24 PM   #7
adileo
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Default Re: On the horn now

Guys this is great. Can you tell me how I test it out?

Based on drawings I think I did it wrong.

So I tried taking a good grd jumper on firewall and connected it to horn terminal and horn sputters.

what would be next step? Remove horns and hard wire to battery!
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Last edited by adileo; 09-10-2019 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: On the horn now

Yes
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: On the horn now

"Remove horns and hard wire to battery?" - Hold off on doing this for now.....

From your description it sounds as though the horn circuit is a high resistance to ground. Inspect/check ALL connection in the horn circuit first; especially the bullet connectors. Pull the bullet connectors apart, inspect and clean. If they're crimped, re-crimp or solder them if you can. Check the horn mountings to make sure they are making good ground contact....
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: On the horn now

Pete, would there be an issue to damage the horn on straight battery? They should work on straight voltage momentarily. It'd be a quick way to narrow down the issue. If they work it'll be easier to clean everything off and decide the next move. Isn't the relay to boost voltage on short bursts?

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Old 09-12-2019, 09:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: On the horn now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
Pete, would there be an issue to damage the horn on straight battery? They should work on straight voltage momentarily. It'd be a quick way to narrow down the issue. If they work it'll be easier to clean everything off and decide the next move. Isn't the relay to boost voltage on short bursts?

.

Understanding relays... I'm a pre 40s guy.

Okay I read relays divert power... shut off items not used, diverting power to things being used actively, giving full power(ish). Not like creating resistance or power like a coil.


Did horn relays actually exists though on 36s? Pretty sure in 38 they did as the frame has holes for it. They included a fuse and lights.



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Last edited by Tinker; 09-12-2019 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:41 PM   #12
petehoovie
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Default Re: On the horn now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
Understanding relays...
Did horn relays actually exists though on 36s? Pretty sure in 38 they did as the frame has holes for it. They included a fuse and lights. .

My '34 and '37 Fords do not have a horn relays....


https://www.explainthatstuff.com/howrelayswork.html
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: On the horn now

The normal horn wiring is basically a direct connection to the battery, so no problem using a jumper direct from the battery. Easy connection point would also be the starter solenoid battery terminal.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: On the horn now

So this could be a bad relay or horn is bad.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: On the horn now

Or the wiring. A jumper straight to the horn with the horn grounded will let you know if it's the horn. Everything else is removed from the circuit.

Last edited by JSeery; 09-10-2019 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: On the horn now

I agree. Should be able to use 12v for a short burst.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:50 AM   #17
adileo
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Default Re: On the horn now

Thanks guys. Here's the results.


I disconnected the 2 wires (grd and horn wire) relay. Wired grd side to good known grd on fire wall. Removed the horn terminal from relay and took horn wire (via a good jumper) over to battery touched and the battery and the horn BLEW loud.


Put horn wire back on relay and tried touching the ground relay wire to the good known grd and horn did not blow.


Is this an indication that the relay is bad?
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Last edited by adileo; 09-11-2019 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:56 AM   #18
JSeery
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Default Re: On the horn now

If it's not the horns, it's the relay or the wiring. Try a short jumper across the horn relay itself between the power terminal and the horn terminal. This will connect the battery via the vehicle wiring to the horn bypassing the relay. If the horns work fine it is most likely a bad relay. If horns do not work correctly it is most likely a wiring problem.
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:24 AM   #19
adileo
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Default Re: On the horn now

Thanks Jerry - horn worked with that jump - so relay is bad.

Thank you Sir!
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: On the horn now

Quote:
Originally Posted by adileo View Post
Thanks Jerry - horn worked with that jump - so relay is bad.

Thank you Sir!

Not necessarily. Open up the relay and check the points. Carefully open the point gap and dress them up with a points file.
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