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Old 03-23-2018, 04:29 PM   #21
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

If you don't replace the crankshaft gear it will eat the new camshaft gear again
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Looks like a couple of engines that I have had.

Just for conversation. Engine looks really dirty and we know timing gear is shoot. Without knowing what the knock sounds like. If it were mine. I would put in a new timing gear. Clean everything, including screen on oil pump. Than put it back together. Put in 4 1/2 quarts of 20-50 HD motor oil and one 16 oz blue bottle of STP. Five quarts needed because you removed oil pan. Fresh gas with MMO. Oil the distributor. Grease the throw out bearing. Grease everything. Check steering box, transmission, and rear end. Don’t forget u joint (I use John Deere Cornhead grease) also in steering box.

If your lucky, after running for awhile, it will be fine. If not, than we all have to talk again.

Change oil again after a couple hundred miles. Good luck. Enjoy.

As I said before. Car looks good. 80 year old owner, might have not seen maintenance it needed for a few years. Doesn’t mean the old owner did not love car.
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Old 03-23-2018, 06:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WHN View Post
Looks like a couple of engines that I have had.

Just for conversation. Engine looks really dirty and we know timing gear is shoot. Without knowing what the knock sounds like. If it were mine. I would put in a new timing gear. Clean everything, including screen on oil pump. Than put it back together. Put in 4 1/2 quarts of 20-50 HD motor oil and one 16 oz blue bottle of STP. Five quarts needed because you removed oil pan. Fresh gas with MMO. Oil the distributor. Grease the throw out bearing. Grease everything. Check steering box, transmission, and rear end. Donít forget u joint (I use John Deere Cornhead grease) also in steering box.

If your lucky, after running for awhile, it will be fine. If not, than we all have to talk again.

Change oil again after a couple hundred miles. Good luck. Enjoy.

As I said before. Car looks good. 80 year old owner, might have not seen maintenance it needed for a few years. Doesnít mean the old owner did not love car.
Yes. This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.

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Old 03-23-2018, 07:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

engine was run with non-detergent oil to have that kind of sludge all over
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Agree with Farrell in Vancover. The engine is old, dirty and the knock is substantial. You can dick around with various things piecemeal for a long time trying one thing at a time. My personal opinion is that the noise is not coming from a fibre camshaft gear, although it may well need to be replaced, or not, depending on measurements. The photos are inconclusive. The fibre gears rarely make noise like that. Tear it down and do it right. The car is really good looking and deserves a good engine.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

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Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
engine was run with non-detergent oil to have that kind of sludge all over


I agree.
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Old 03-24-2018, 01:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

A couple of years ago my A was making a faint knocking type of noise that no one could isolate....using stethoscope or wood dowels. It ran fine, but got slightly worse over time. Then, one day, I decided to take it to our local Model A mechanic, but on the way, it suddenly quite running. Had it towed via AAA to his garage.....a couple of hours later we determined the fiber timing gear had stripped out, and replaced it with a new laminated one. Noise was gone; in this case it was a fiber timing gear going bad....yours sounds much worse, so may well be something else, but those gears need replacing in any event.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:03 AM   #28
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Everyone, including me, has our own idea of what could be going on with your engine.

As I mentioned to you earlier. I have had a couple of cars that looked the same way, and sounded very much like yours.

Many years ago we pulled a Model A out of a barn that it had been sitting in for over 35 years. When we got it running it was making all kinds of different sounds. We pulled pan and it looked like yours, timings gear was also shoot.

We rebuilt oil pump, replaced timing gear, cleaned oil pan, put back together. Started engine using oil I mentioned in earlier post. It ran great, but still had a couple of light knock type sounds. Added rebuilt distributor and leakless water pump. Engine now ran right. The little valve noise it had went away after some driving with the MMO in gas and the high detergent motor oil doing its job.

It’s 40 years later, and that same engine is still running strong. No noise, great compression, no knocks or smoke.

If you rebuild you still are going to need a good distributor and water pump. Plus other things.

If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. What will it cost you? Gaskets and a timing gear that you need anyway.

Your car looks like it was well cared for. I would take a chance. Good luck. Enjoy.
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Did you run it with the fan belt off to make sure the noise is not coming from the fan, water pump or generator and their pulleys? Cracked fan blades will make a lot of noise when engine is running.

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Old 03-24-2018, 09:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Re: my above post regarding cracked fan blade. Inspect it carefully before you run the engine to look for cracks near the hub. You don't want to be anywhere near a blade when it lets loose.

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Old 03-24-2018, 10:53 AM   #31
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lona View Post
Did you run it with the fan belt off to make sure the noise is not coming from the fan, water pump or generator and their pulleys? Cracked fan blades will make a lot of noise when engine is running.

Glen
Yes I did. Knock still there.

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Old 03-24-2018, 11:19 AM   #32
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

I agree with WHN. Clean out the pan and oil pump screen. Replace the timing gear. Start it up and see what happens. I had 2 fiber timing gears wear out and create a knock. I replaced the second fiber timing gear with an aluminum timing gear. No more problems..
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Old 03-24-2018, 11:20 AM   #33
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Service your main and rod bearings..looks like there are shims on the rods but couldn't tell if the mains have any shims from the picture.No main bearing shims? she's on her last go round,time to start looking for a good babbit man..
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:07 PM   #34
Chuck Sea/Tac
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

How did you run it with the valve cover off?? If your oil pump was pumping properly ( dirty screen) then all your oil would be on the floor.
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:30 PM   #35
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Reckon you are going deeper than a timing gear and a clean up..there are some suspicious looking items on your lower end..2,3 and 4 rods look newer than 1..the cylinder walls are badly glazed...center main bearing left bolt is turned,wonder if it has a cotter pin or if its loose The front main bearing appears to have no shims at all. Got any history on this engine?
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Back when I was in college my A developed a knock. After pulling it down my timing gear was badly worn--replaced it knock went away. Good chance that yours is the problem
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:17 AM   #37
Patrick L.
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

To add, I too would check/adjust the crank bearings [ and check/adjust oil pump clearances] as long as the base is off for the cleaning.

I like to set bearings at .0015" [ the rear even a bit tighten if I can]
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Honestly my opinion would to pull the motor and go for a rebuild once and for all. Even if you fix the knock, looks like that motor doesn't have much life left. and be careful if you do drop the mains/rods caps. ive had a few were the Babbitt basically fell apart soon as i dropped it.
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Old 03-25-2018, 09:18 PM   #39
Wick
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

A worn out Cam Button (spring) will make one knock.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:55 AM   #40
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Default Re: Chasing the knock.

Well I got this far today. I hope this is evidence this is my knock. Also that's my son at the end. He had to get in there and help.

https://youtu.be/lDI6grnm-Z0

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