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Old 09-02-2019, 01:18 PM   #1
SimplyCosmic
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Default No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Purchased a 1929 Tudor in May and have been replacing worn our parts over the summer. I am very much a minimal shade-tree mechanic, but I've been able to do a surprising amount of work on the A, including replacing the old and rust-filled radiator.

A couple of weeks ago it lost a lot of power and I decided to test compression with a basic kit plus a spark plug adapter.

Cylinders 1 and 2 showed 57 when tested, but 3 and 4 gave me a zero.

How bad is this? I mean I know it's not good, I just want to know how much crying and wailing I am in for. And what are my next steps?
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:21 PM   #2
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

There is a good chance that the head gasket blew out between #3,#,4
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Side by side cylinders with low compression usually point to a blown head gasket between the two. You will have to pull the head to investigate and replace the head gasket.
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:23 PM   #4
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyCosmic View Post
Purchased a 1929 Tudor in May and have been replacing worn our parts over the summer. I am very much a minimal shade-tree mechanic, but I've been able to do a surprising amount of work on the A, including replacing the old and rust-filled radiator.

A couple of weeks ago it lost a lot of power and I decided to test compression with a basic kit plus a spark plug adapter.

Cylinders 1 and 2 showed 57 when tested, but 3 and 4 gave me a zero.

How bad is this? I mean I know it's not good, I just want to know how much crying and wailing I am in for. And what are my next steps?

Yes, as others have indicated, I would remove the head and look specifically at the head gasket. I too would guess it is blown between them. At that time, report back and we'll advise the next step based on your findings.
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Like above, most likely head gasket.


Odds are the valves are not stuck open on 2 cylinders at the same time, could do a leak down test or take the valve access cover off to check, just in case. Am not sure if a borescope through the spark plug holes could be used to see if all the valves are closing.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:32 PM   #6
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Sorry about the delay here, but between work and my hesitation doing this for the first time made the process of removing the head a very slow process.

But I did it! And I think I may have found the problem. (hah!)

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Old 09-18-2019, 08:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Definitely found your problem. While the head is off take it to a machine shop and have the surface milled. Probably cost $75-$100 but no point putting a warped head back on. New head gasket and follow torqueing instructions in Les Andrews book and hopefully problem solved.
I had same problem this summer between #2 and #3 cylinders. my head was so warped though that you could actually feel the indentation it with your fingers.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Good Job!!
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

While I'm thinking ahead, I was able to get all of the studs out and will be replacing them with new grade 5 studs and grade 8 nuts. Is anti-seize something put on the studs when installing? Also, any recommendations on some kind of thin brush to clean out all the holes?
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

I would suggest that you not use a copper gasket. There are better gaskets currently available that I feel seal better.


JMO,


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Old 09-18-2019, 11:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

I ordered the premium gasket via Snyders. The one with the "solid steel core sandwiched by heavy-duty high-density gasket material coated with silicone."
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Do a search on head gaskets - more than a few people have had problems with teh modern silconed head gasket.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

At the risk of starting an argument here, what is the current best-recommended gasket and the best place to buy it from? I see mentions of a Best GraphTite?
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:04 AM   #14
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

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While I'm thinking ahead, I was able to get all of the studs out and will be replacing them with new grade 5 studs and grade 8 nuts. Is anti-seize something put on the studs when installing? Also, any recommendations on some kind of thin brush to clean out all the holes?
I use a small metal pick (made from a paper clip or similar with one end sharpened) and blow out with compressed air.
If you want the paper-clip pick to stay close to the side of the hole, you could try cutting a groove into a loose fitting stick and sliding the paper clip into it. use like a thread chaser.

Anti-seize is good. Others might suggest something that keeps water out.
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Old 09-19-2019, 05:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

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At the risk of starting an argument here, what is the current best-recommended gasket and the best place to buy it from? I see mentions of a Best GraphTite?
The graphite gasket is well liked. For a stock head though, copper is a good choice too. Send that “modern” gasket back, it’ll just give you headaches down the road. Antifreeze attacks the silicone.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

I had the same problem between 3 and 4 this spring. It was a copper gasket and I replaced it with another copper. The reason I chose the copper over the graphite is if it ever has to be done again the copper comes off so much easier.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplyCosmic View Post
At the risk of starting an argument here, what is the current best-recommended gasket and the best place to buy it from? I see mentions of a Best GraphTite?

The graphtite and copper are good choices. Not sure why a previous poster said not to use copper. Graphtite gasket is a pain to remove if having to pull the head in the future, a lot of difficult scraping of the head and block deck may be required to remove all the gasket material


Had my motor rebuilt last winter. The rebuilder told be if I wanted the siliconed gasket to take my business elsewhere due to the problem Ryan mentions, and said he also had a couple of motors running water that started seeping in the 1000/2000 mile range. He recommended the copper and is what I have.

If ever loosening the nuts, drain the coolant below the level of the head to prevent seepage. Some when re-torqueing like to slightly loosen the nut 1/16 of a turn or so before torqueing, which can cause seepage. My motor rebuilder says this is not necessary on bolts/nuts that are clean/fresh.


When the head is off have it magnafluxed and resurfaced flat, Check the block deck with a straight edge for flatness.


Clean both surfaces so they are grease/oil/dirt free. The surfaces should not be completely smooth, resist the temptation to prepare the surfaces to a mirror smooth finish. There should be a very slight crosshatching in teh surface


Test fit the gasket to make sure all is OK. Spray copper coat on both sides of the gasket, allow it to get tacky. Some like to apply 2 light coats, tacky between coats. some other have alternate methods. Not sure what method to use on the Graphtite.


Put the head and upper coolant neck on, make sure the neck/block mating surfaces are absolutely flat and use a paper gasket, some use silicone/gasket maker. Torque in sequence at 35 lbs, 45 lbs, 50 lbs, 55 lbs.
These are values used by my motor rebuilder.


One of the head nuts is under the distributor. It must be torqued with the distributor removed or by using a crow foot wrench. Use the style that has the Torque Wrench opening directly vertically above nut opening. Some are offset and can cause incorrect torqueing.


My motor rebuilder instructed me to re-torque at 50 miles, at 100 miles, at 200 miles, at 400 miles, at 800 miles, at 1400 miles. If any of the nuts move at the 1400 mile mark, repeat re-torque every 400 miles until the torque is stable. I also plan on re-torque every spring/fall since I run antifreeze year round.

Last edited by 30 Closed Cab PU; 09-19-2019 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Is there a particular recommended anti-seize for the replacement studs?
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Some say to use Permatex #2 since it prevents water getting into the studs and rusting. Some say to use anti-seize, others say not to use anti-seize because it is not a sealer. I know this is of no help, another debatable subject with strong opinions/views. Wish I had asked my motor builder what he does. I would ask a motor builder, or a couple of builders for their views. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...eze+head+bolts


This thread says to use Permatex instead of anti-seize.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ight=antisieze
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: No Compression in 3 & 4 Cylinders

Also, incase you do not know, a couple of the water pump studs are not blind and the holes go all the way through into the water passages, sealing these with Permatex #2 is required.


Also check these out, instead of putting water pump studs in use these, makes water pump removal very easy the next time. Do not have to remove the radiator.
https://snydersantiqueauto.com/Produ...S-MOUNTING-KIT
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