Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-04-2015, 11:01 AM   #1
john charlton
Senior Member
 
john charlton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 706
Default Very Stuck Cylinder Head

still need to get the head off to see why no compression on no 2 cylinder . No luck so far . This is the stuckest ( is this correct English I ask myself) head I have ever had . I reassembled the engine with all head bolts backed way off and it ran happily on 3 and head remained solidly on . I cut up several old carving knives and have slim wedges all around . They are driven in as far as I dare , I think I have reached the point where I might damage the block if I hit them any harder . I have had the car front virtually suspended by the cylinder head as well but still solidly on . Looks like some kind of industrial glue has been used as a gasket sealer . I have tried bopping the head studs WD40 etc etc If all fails I will pull the engine and take it to my local friendly garage and try some oxy/acetylene heat .I will keep you all informed .Any other tips will be gladly accepted .

John in cloudy warm afternoon Suffolk County England
john charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 11:08 AM   #2
CarlG
Senior Member
 
CarlG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 8,414
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

I've had good luck with stubborn Model A heads using this handy tool built by Bill Stipe, and available at most vendors:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Head Puller.jpg (51.2 KB, 106 views)
__________________
Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owner's Club
CarlG is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-04-2015, 11:20 AM   #3
john charlton
Senior Member
 
john charlton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 706
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Yes I have seen this adveritised .How does it actually work ? I cant see the detail .What function do the 5 large holes have ? Thanks .

John in same weather Suffoilk County England .
john charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 11:32 AM   #4
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

The large holes are for lifting the engine or pulling the head with a hoist. But the head will come loose using just the two special bolts shown in the picture. It's hard to explain in writing, but obvious when you have the tool in hand.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 11:33 AM   #5
wrndln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 4,479
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

John,
Did you try to start the engine with the head bolts loosened about 1/4". I have heard this will sometimes break the head loose with the compression of the engine. I have never done this myself, but it sounds like it might be worth a try. The engine wont run long if the head pops up. Just a thought.

Also, I don't understand why just using a chain hooked to 2 spark plug holes and a hoist would be much different than using the $90 head remover. Could someone explain why just hooking a couple spark plug bolts like in the picture wouldn't do the same job as the head remover?
Rusty Nelson
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Engine puller chain.jpg (116.7 KB, 43 views)

Last edited by wrndln; 08-04-2015 at 11:42 AM.
wrndln is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 11:48 AM   #6
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrndln View Post
John,
Did you try to start the engine with the head bolts loosened about 1/4". I have heard this will sometimes break the head loose with the compression of the engine. I have never done this myself, but it sounds like it might be worth a try. The engine wont run long if the head pops up. Just a thought.

Also, I don't understand why just using a chain hooked to 2 spark plug holes and a hoist would be much different than using the $90 head remover. Could someone explain why just hooking a couple spark plug bolts like in the picture wouldn't do the same job as the head remover?
Rusty Nelson
i have lifted an engine and trans assy out of the car with all the head nuts backed off... the head never moved...
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 12:18 PM   #7
Bruce
Senior Member
 
Bruce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: 60 miles west of Chicago
Posts: 469
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

I always thought that clothesline fed into the cylinders through the spark plug hole to lift a stuck head was an automotive myth. Then, I heard from a reliable mechanic-friend that he had witnessed its success.
He said that it makes the clothesline pretty dirty and that, if you choose to try it, you should have a new rope ready to hang up -- or expect to eat at the pub.
However, I have never had a head that was so stuck that compression would not pop it loose.
Bruce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 12:25 PM   #8
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
I always thought that clothesline fed into the cylinders through the spark plug hole to lift a stuck head was an automotive myth. Then, I heard from a reliable mechanic-friend that he had witnessed its success.
He said that it makes the clothesline pretty dirty and that, if you choose to try it, you should have a new rope ready to hang up -- or expect to eat at the pub.
However, I have never had a head that was so stuck that compression would not pop it loose.
have a new connecting rod ready also
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 12:28 PM   #9
Steve Wastler
Senior Member
 
Steve Wastler's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,987
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

The head on my roadster was stuck like that. Tried all the above mentioned ways, even a few not mentioned over the course of about a month and a half. Broke down ann bought the head remover as above and the head popped off in 5 minutes. Would not think of removing any head without it!
Steve Wastler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 12:42 PM   #10
john charlton
Senior Member
 
john charlton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 706
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Thank you all most appreciated . I ran the motor with all the head nuts on a few turns on the studs . I was just being a little over cautious I know just had visions of the head departing through the garage roof .When you get to 76 yrs old you do get a little paranoid ,I wasnt sure on the insurance !!!.

John in Suffo;k County England
john charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 01:10 PM   #11
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,442
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

I have never had compression break a head loose, and I also have has a couple engines that were stuck just like John's. I sprayed Kroil on the studs and pounded thin knives around the perimeter, and this was with the head puller tool installed. It took a few hours of pounding knives and tightening the puller bolts, but it final came.

The very first Model A I worked on was the most stuck head I ever had. I had a chain running to two spark plug holes and had the front tires off the ground by a couple inches. Even with pounding knives around the edge it still took a couple days work to remove the head. Someone had used varnish or some good glue on both sides of the head gasket.

The head remover tool which is a large flat plate is the best tool to try, as it presses down against several head studs to put lifting pressure against the head. When lifting the front of the car off the ground you are limited by the weight of the car, which can be less than the head tool can apply. Also the spark plugs aren't centered, so the head tends to left more from one side. The right tool makes lifting more even across the head.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 02:07 PM   #12
Henry1953
Senior Member
 
Henry1953's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Laurel, MS
Posts: 126
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Compression would not break mine loose. I bought the head removal tool shown and it popped it right off. After I ordered the tool and while I was waiting for it to come in I put WD40 around the head studs. This probably helped as well.
Henry1953 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 02:16 PM   #13
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 8,185
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

The head on mine was also very tight. Had chain hooked to 2 spark plug eyelets and the hoist attached, finally popped with the front wheels off the ground.
paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 02:29 PM   #14
mshmodela
Senior Member
 
mshmodela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 2,750
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Now don't laugh but I wonder if in the automotive repair business someone makes some link of machine that could produce slow frequency, vibrations. In the computer business we destroy hard disks by a degausing machine that in a magnetic that in additon to frying the disk platers it shakes the you know what out of the disks... the idea is, like a jack hammer, vibrate the head...
__________________
-Mike

Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy

I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A.

Cleveland, Ohio
mshmodela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 02:57 PM   #15
briphaeton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 209
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

I made one of these. Worked great without any damage to either head or block.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stuckhead.jpg (53.3 KB, 263 views)
briphaeton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 03:51 PM   #16
Juggler
Senior Member
 
Juggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Phoenix AZ/Bath UK
Posts: 444
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by briphaeton View Post
I made one of these. Worked great without any damage to either head or block.
I like that. A lot simpler than some I've seen. Will try and make the old man one (John's my Dad) over the weekend

Many thanks
Juggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 03:56 PM   #17
FRANK PKNY
Senior Member
 
FRANK PKNY's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: POUGHKEEPSIE NY 12601
Posts: 960
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

BRIPHAETON That tool is much better than the commercial one. I can see that working well. With a blue print and a cnc machine you could make these at a reasonable price. Perhaps a vender may have interest in it? Frank
__________________
FRANK PKNY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 04:52 PM   #18
briphaeton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 209
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Elrod is the one who deserves credit for this. A drill press or milling machine would easily do the job. My aluminum thomas head was on for 25 years and didn't want to damage it.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...d-head.218487/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg stuckhead2.jpg (45.0 KB, 184 views)
briphaeton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 05:04 PM   #19
BILL WILLIAMSON
Senior Member
 
BILL WILLIAMSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,558
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Minerva had 1 stud that was HORRIBLE!!!!! After MUCH soaking, etc, it FINALLY turned with a stud remover & proceeded to lift the head. Still stuck in the head, I had to drive it back & forth MANY times with a punch, before it came out! The entire length was VERY rough, a BLACKISH/GREY color & looked like it had been literally WELDED TO THE HEAD! NEVER saw one like that before! "MAYBE" some kind of ELECTROLISIS or "SOMETHING"???? NO other studs were even rusty, at all. Any ideas??---Head was perfect, took it off because of a slight water leak between #3 & #4, causing a 5 second miss on those 2 cylinders, after sitting overnight.
Bill W.
__________________
"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"
BILL WILLIAMSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2015, 05:15 PM   #20
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,101
Default Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head

Can you not pull the studs out?
__________________
Don't go away mad, just go away.
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:17 PM.