(Great?) Sediment Bowl Idea

[pgerhardt]

Having a bunch of cast iron sediment bowls to restore has gotten me to thinking (I know - dangerous!)

Could I replace the valve needle (Picture 1)

With an aircraft type gas tank drain valve (picture 2)

Then before every start I could use an aircraft type fuel testing cup (picture 3) to quickly sample the fuel and check for water or other gunk!

The aircraft drain valve is 7/16 20 which looks very close to the model A needle valve. Does anyone know the size and thread count of the model A sediment needle valve?

[Joe K]

Does the aircraft valve take sample from the "bottom" of the sediment bowl? It appears to have holes just below the sealing face - but won't these be covered when in place?

And if you're sampling higher (there seems to be something, possibly a sample point up on the straight above the thread) what might be the point?

Maybe a mason jar will do as well for what you learn?

Joe K

[Big hammer]

For 28$ plus shipping x-2 on mason jar or baby food jar :-)

[J Franklin]

Can't you accomplish the same thing with the original valve set-up?

[pgerhardt]

I have a few extra valves to play with so I figured it would be fun to experiment. I am thinking of putting the female part of the valve in my drill press and removing the sealing surface of the needle valve which should expose the drain holes to the bottom of the bowl.

As far as cost goes - If I were cost sensitive I'd sure be in the wrong hobby! I enjoy "instant engineering" so the experiment should be fun. The cost of the parts is just the price of admission.

My aviation background and interest leads be to believe that this might just be a very convenient minor mod that will result in checking the fuel before EVERY start. A good thing IMHO.

Yes the original needle valve will accomplish the same thing, but this mod may do it easier with less chance of a leak. Then again it might not work at all! I'll let you all know if it does.

That still leaves my original question: does anyone know the size and thread count of the needle valve?

[SteveB31]

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For thread sizes and seat angles, contact Alan Lepore in Canton, Ct at 860-693-0112. He makes the two sediment bowl parts that you are speaking of.

[Marvin/TN]

I have changed a couple of those on Air Planes. 115/145 sure is cold out on the flt line in the winter when it runs down your arm. We didn't defuel the plane and just did a quick swap of the leaky drain with a new one and hoped you got it started the first time before your fingers got too cold to feel the new sump drain.

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by Marvin/TN

I have changed a couple of those on Air Planes. 115/145 sure is cold out on the flt line in the winter when it runs down your arm. We didn't defuel the plane and just did a quick swap of the leaky drain with a new one and hoped you got it started the first time before your fingers got too cold to feel the new sump drain.

Sounds like a typical flight lineman job, along with anything else that needed doing. (I worked on the flight line of Connecticut Air Service at Danbury airport all through college.) My favorite jobs were "opening up" aircraft so the mechanics could inspect them, driving the fuel tanker truck to refuel aircraft (I got REAL good at backing up using only mirrors.), driving a huge pay loader to clear snow from the ramp, and taxying the flight school's aircraft down to the hanger to put then away each night. My least favorite job - cleaning out the sewer line that came from flight office rest rooms! Like I said, anything that needed doing

[pgerhardt]

After some instant engineering I got the an aircraft type gas tank drain valve to work with the case iron model A sediment bulb. Since the threads on the valve were 7/16 - 20, this is same as the Ford part, and so it was a perfect fit. But as Joe K pointed out the aircraft valve picks up the fuel (and water) from the very bottom, some work was needed. First I put the Ford brass "receiving nut" in my drill press and removed the seat where the needle used to seal to allow the AC valve to fit up into the sediment bulb. But then I still had to find a way for the fuel to make its way all the way down to the valve's receiving holes. I took my dremel tool and carefully cut channels through the threads of the valve and matching channels in the Ford brass "receiving nut". After cleaning up the threads of both pieces with a tap and die, it went together perfectly, and worked with no leaks. YEA!

[CarlG]

I was thinking of using an SA3 Gascolator, wonder if that would work?

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I was thinking of using an SA3 Gascolator, wonder if that would work?

I would think you could use one in place of a sediment bowl, but they are expensive! If I can find someone with a lathe to turn down the valve so that I can fit the cast handles from the original needle, the mod will look 100 percent original. That is something the gascolator will never be.

[CarlG]

Not really worried about "looking original". Just would like to supply a clean flow of fuel to the carb. Not being a machinist, I have to look for things that bolt on and will do the job.

Wonder if the price would be less without the STC? I'll have to ask.

[pgerhardt]

Just make sure you get one certified for a Cessna or other high wing aircraft with a gravity feed fuel system. You would not want one designed for the higher pressure of a fuel pump.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Minerva had a cast sediment bowl, when I drained the bowl, I NEVER found WATER?? I drove her 400 to 500 miles a MONTH!
Bill W.

[Jim Huseby]

I think it's a neat idea, since you can't see inside the cast iron sediment bulb. You may want to explain to some of the barners how the aircraft fuel sampler cup works, though.

[pgerhardt]

Originally Posted by forever4

That solution is too obvious. Some people just like to tamper with things.

There is no doubt that I enjoy the creative aspect of "instant engineering". However there is a practical reason. The easier and more convenient an operation is the more likely you will do it every time. The aircraft fuel sampling valve is both of those. You insert the pin of the fuel sampling cup and push. the fuel flows down the pin into the cup. Remove the cup and the valve closes and seals. No spills, no drips, no gas smell on your hands. With the original valve, fuel starts to flow as soon as you begin unscrewing it. Most likely getting some on your fingers, and continues to flow as you screw it closed - another opportunity to make a mess.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

With a glass bowl, you see 2 flakes of rust & PANIC! In the iron bowl, you just "SET IT & FORGET IT"---It has a FINE, well designed SCREEN, don't you have enough FAITH in it, to accept the fact that it's doing it's JOB properly?
Do you pull your pan every week, just to see if something STRANGE got in there?? Do you also pull the head every 17 days, just to check for CRACKS or what COLOR your head gasket has turned, or to see if you remember??? what style of GASKET you used, 17 DAYS ago! And rustle through yore INVOICES, so's you can complain about SHIPPPING charges (:-(
I jist want to git to walking "normal" & spend 2 or 3 hours, finishing Vermin, & see if I can still drive him, with my almost NEW, G-FORCE, RACIN' shoes!!
Bill W.
Bill W.

[Terry, NJ]

Bill, With all the alky in the gas Minerva will have to go to an AA meeting to get dried out, dontcha know? " Hello! My name is Minerva and I'm a? Gee, what am I? Cars can't be alcoholics can they? Well anyway, I had my first drink at 75. It was a mixed drink and now I really like the stuff!" Alcohol's great when taken with the right water!
Terry

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Minerva had a cast sediment bowl, when I drained the bowl, I NEVER found WATER?? I drove her 400 to 500 miles a MONTH!
Bill W.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Bill, With all the alky in the gas Minerva will have to go to an AA meeting to get dried out, dontcha know? " Hello! My name is Minerva and I'm a? Gee, what am I? Cars can't be alcoholics can they? Well anyway, I had my first drink at 75. It was a mixed drink and now I really like the stuff!" Alcohol's great when taken with the right water!
Terry

Sorry, Terry,
Minerva cain't go to AA! She now lives in Hagenborg, B. C, 600 miles North of Vancouver, Canada. Now owned by a BEAR Researcher. Had to sell her when Pat was in a care home & $$$$$$'s were short.
Bill W.