Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #21
flatheadmurre
Senior Member
 
flatheadmurre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,475
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Something is broken in that regulator...i usually aim for 7.4v output to the battery.
The Fun projects regulators donīt like to high charging current...so if someone set the third brush higher then it should be recomended by them perhaps the regulator died.
flatheadmurre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 11:56 AM   #22
TJP
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJP View Post
Still a bit confused here. Assuming I Have the fun projects regulator, and referring to the above quote, If the generator is putting 7.3 v into the regulator should I not be seeing that 7.3 volts or so on the output side as well ?
I'm assuming the battery voltage should be at 6.9 to 7.1 with the engine running at a high idle. and maybe that is where my confusion is Sorry to be such a pest but just trying to make sure things are correct.
TJP
I am still wondering about the above questions. I have contacted several people and received conflicting answers.
The battery while running at 2K or so RPM shows 6.1 - 6.2 V. Is this acceptable
with the "fun projects" regulator ? or should it be higher
TJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-20-2019, 12:29 PM   #23
john in illinois
Senior Member
 
john in illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,853
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Here is a link to fun projects. Download the instructions and that should answer your questions. It says model A but is also for 3rd brush V8 . Apparently your gen. Is working.

http://www.funprojects.com/products/10505r.aspx

John
__________________
Welcome each day

Last edited by john in illinois; 09-20-2019 at 12:35 PM.
john in illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 02:46 PM   #24
TJP
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by john in illinois View Post
Here is a link to fun projects. Download the instructions and that should answer your questions. It says model A but is also for 3rd brush V8 . Apparently your gen. Is working.

http://www.funprojects.com/products/10505r.aspx

John
Thanks John, I have read that but there is no reference to voltages

I think where my confusion lies is I am use to looking at battery voltage on 12V systems to get an indication of the charging systems condition.
Typically a 12v system reading 13.8 to 14.2 with the engine running is golden

Using the above experiences, I am expecting to see 6.9- 7.1 at the 6V battery
but am only seeing 6.1.
The input to the regulator from the armature is 7.3 but the output to the battery is 6.2 Which makes me question the regulator???

So in summary what should I be seeing at the battery or am I chasing my tail

TJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 03:10 PM   #25
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,132
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

I have not had any experience with the fun projects regulators, but in general the charging system should be outputting in the ranges you listed (high 6v to low 7v range). With a later regulator that is what you would be seeing going to the battery.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 03:32 PM   #26
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 10,297
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

The fun projects regulator is a companion piece to a 3-brush generator so it will not compare to a 2-brush system other than being a generator. With any 3-brush system, you have to be thinking in amps. Voltage is regulated but it's regulated by the amount of amps drawn and the voltage of the battery. If the max capacity of the battery is 6.2 then that's what the max voltage will be. If the battery is discharged down to 5-volts then the regulator will put out the max amperage that the system is pre-set to until the battery is closer to a charged state where the output amperage will start to taper off. When the battery is fully charged, the amp output will be minimal to keep the battery at that state and voltage should be back up to full level depending on condition of the battery.

The old 3-brush without the regulator just charges at the amperage setting of the third brush all the time. This has a tendency to over work the generator and overcharge the battery. This is why John came up with these products.

If you want a generator to charge at 7.2-volts then you need a 2-brush unit with a 3-pole regulator control unit.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 03:53 PM   #27
flatheadmurre
Senior Member
 
flatheadmurre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,475
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Even with constant current charging you should see a higher then 6.1v at the end of a drive or the battery will be shortlived...
Just check the battery acid with a oldfashioned meter that will tell you what is going on..
6.37v is the voltage for a fully charged 6v battery...6.1v is half discharged...you should never let the battery go under 5.7v or there is a fair chance of damage to it...
No matter how you charge it you must get up to full or battery will go out real fast...
flatheadmurre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 04:11 PM   #28
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 8,182
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Why not "ditch" the regulator on it now and install an original type cut-out??
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 05:58 PM   #29
TJP
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
Why not "ditch" the regulator on it now and install an original type cut-out??
Paul in CT
That is strongly being considered. As anyone following this can see by the last 3 or so responses there is some conflicting opinions as to what I should be seeing at the battery.

I did speak with birdhaven who now owns Fun Projects and they felt that 6.1V was fine. Information here as well as other sources ( battery MFR's) say 2.3V or so per cell is required for obtaining a full charge

What are the opinions on a source for a quality cutout, Stock design, diode, and I'm guessing not "fun projects" ???
Thanks
TJP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 06:01 PM   #30
31Abone
Senior Member
 
31Abone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Big pine Ca 93513
Posts: 704
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

3rd brush gens were designed so you would not need a voltage regulator, they were controled by moving 3rd brush for summer or winter use, the faster they turn the less they put out....the shunt type generator came out about mid 30's to utilize a voltage regulator and better control of current and voltage to cars systems..sc
31Abone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 07:34 PM   #31
koates
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Melbourne Australia.
Posts: 1,397
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Hi there. Not once in your posts have you mentioned what readings are showing on your dash ammeter. Read your Fun Projects instruction sheet and follow that. You can mostly forget the voltage readings. When you start up your engine rev it up to about two thousand RPM or so, the ammeter may go up to about 8 amps approx. After a minute or two the ammeter will drop back to near zero or an amp or two. Don't forget the ammeter reading is already allowing for the 3 amp current draw of the ignition coil. Turn your headlights on and rev her up and the ammeter should be around zero because the gen is covering the headlamp current draw. As per the instructions with the regulator the third brush on the gen has to be set at a maximum output of 10 amps. I repeat, FORGET THE VOLTAGE READINGS !!. I have a 34 ford V8 with a third brush generator and Fun Projects regulator on top and the above is how it works. I am an Auto electrician and have fitted up a number of these regs and they work well provided the cars electrical system is all original ie. NO QH HEADLIGHT BULBS etc. Regards, Kevin.
koates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 09:36 AM   #32
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 10,297
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

Folks have mentioned what a fully charged battery may read. 2.125 volts per cell is max as a general rule but that is for a brand new battery with fresh lead plates and electrolyte. All batteries are just a bit different even of the same manufacturer and part number so there will be variations. After a battery is fully charged and it sets for a period of time, the voltage will drop off to around 6.1 volts on the average. 6.2 or 6.3 volts would be more likely while the battery is still being charged depending on age and condition of the battery. A bad battery will give a 3-brush system a real work out and can harm solid state parts like the fun projects regulator. A high discharge load test is the best test of any battery for condition. An electrolyte check can give a person an idea about what the state of charge is but it won't give an indication of the capacity that it's capable of.

The 3-brush generators were used for a long time due to the simplicity but they are not up to the task on the more modern systems with higher current draw. With radios and heaters being added, they just weren't cutting it any more. This is where the 2-brush finally came on line in 1939. It's field and armature design requires regulation of everything so it has voltage and current control as well as a cut out.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-21-2019 at 09:49 AM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 04:12 PM   #33
31Abone
Senior Member
 
31Abone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Big pine Ca 93513
Posts: 704
Default Re: 3 brush generator ????

It was common in the teens & twenties to run with lights on during the day on a long trip to help with over charging problem....something I read yrs ago..sc
31Abone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:07 PM.