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Old 09-01-2019, 02:54 PM   #1
Ol' Ron
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Default STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Been a number of post, about rear end gearing, over drives and performance mods to the engine. There are a number of things you should consider before you make a decision, This may help.
Application of the vehicle. Groceries getter, open road travel. Etc.

For this you have to consider the performance of the engine. A bone stock 239 engine in good tune puts out aprox 80 hp at 3000 rpm. Torque runs from a max of 150 at 2k to 133 at 3k . Actually alittle less with generator and fan.

All this information is available in JWL's book "Flathead Facts"
The original Vehicle took most of this information into consideration when built.

For "street use" the only way you can improve this is to increase the torque output of the engine in the operating range. 2 to 3000 rpm and the only way you can do this is by compression and displacement.

Dual exhaust, more carbs and a hot ignition, doesn't get it done, just milling the heads does more in this range. I hope more people take part in this thread, this way we'll all learn allot and maybe save a few buck in the process.
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

For street engines, both Ron and John have excellent books that cover anything you need to know.
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Old 09-01-2019, 04:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
Been a number of post, about rear end gearing, over drives and performance mods to the engine. There are a number of things you should consider before you make a decision, This may help.
Application of the vehicle. Groceries getter, open road travel. Etc.

For this you have to consider the performance of the engine. A bone stock 239 engine in good tune puts out aprox 80 hp at 3000 rpm. Torque runs from a max of 150 at 2k to 133 at 3k . Actually alittle less with generator and fan.

All this information is available in JWL's book "Flathead Facts"
The original Vehicle took most of this information into consideration when built.

For "street use" the only way you can improve this is to increase the torque output of the engine in the operating range. 2 to 3000 rpm and the only way you can do this is by compression and displacement.

Dual exhaust, more carbs and a hot ignition, doesn't get it done, just milling the heads does more in this range. I hope more people take part in this thread, this way we'll all learn allot and maybe save a few buck in the process.
Good post Rod. And like Pete posted, lots of good information in their books.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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Torque runs from a max of 150 at 2k to 133 at 3k.

Possibly a LITTLE off topic here, but this is a better reason to consider a 5-speed trans (4gears + O/D) such as a T5 for it's ability to keep the engine operating within the favorable torque band (RPM-wise), vs the importance of the benefits realized from the O/D. When you think it thru, the T5 gives you the best of BOTH worlds. Just a thought for the few folks that are actually considering the use of one of these transmissions. You know what they say....."Once you go T5, you'll never go back", or words to that effect! DD
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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Possibly a LITTLE off topic here, but this is a better reason to consider a 5-speed trans (4gears + O/D) such as a T5 for it's ability to keep the engine operating within the favorable torque band (RPM-wise), vs the importance of the benefits realized from the O/D. When you think it thru, the T5 gives you the best of BOTH worlds. Just a thought for the few folks that are actually considering the use of one of these transmissions. You know what they say....."Once you go T5, you'll never go back", or words to that effect! DD
X2 on all of that.
I have converted several and every one has said it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Yes, I sometime think it was made for the flathead. As well as the RTS 3 spd with OD
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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X2 on all of that.
I have converted several and every one has said it is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
These are obviously older gentlemen.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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Yes, I sometime think it was made for the flathead. As well as the RTS 3 spd with OD
Forget that RTS3 thing. It has absolutely horrible ratios for either performance or gas mileage driving. Mainly, it is short one gear.
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Old 09-01-2019, 07:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Pete, when are you going to publish a book? I'd be interested!!
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Old 09-01-2019, 08:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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Pete, when are you going to publish a book? I'd be interested!!
LOL....You can't imagine how many times I have had that question.
I have to reply, when would I do it? I am running on 32 hour days now and enjoying every minute of it.
One of the big reasons is, my experience is in circle track and Bonneville racing and interest in that is very small compared to street racing and I use the term "street racing" because when you get right down to it, that is what all of the economy diddling with flathead Ford engines is about.
If you want to go get groceries or go to show and shines you don't need a dry sump oiling system etc etc. You just want to beat the 55 GMC pickup next to you at the light.
All of the data that can possibly be published about somewhat modified flatheads has been published many times.
I know most of the people that are interested in all out flatheads and any new ones can easily find me. My computer is on 24/7 and I spend at least an hour a day answering vintage race email. That is the way I want it.
So, no book for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for thinking about it anyway.

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Old 09-02-2019, 07:53 AM   #11
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

So if I already have a merc crank and EAB heads I should be ok and switching from a single carb to a duel intake will just be icing on the cake, right?
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Pete, I have an RST in my 47 PU behind a "stock"280 ci engine. 2GC carb abd converted Chevy distributor. 3.73 44A rear. Living in Vermont, it's perfect match. I saved the T-5 for the roadster, have to watch my pennies.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

I've got the RTS in my 39 with a 3.70 rear axle. Really like it.
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

One way to save money is to have your cast iron heads angled milled .050" with the majority of the material removed from the valve side of the head. Then check for piston to head clearance. A Dremel can fix any interfere. adds a point in compression
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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Living in Vermont, it's perfect match. I saved the T-5 for the roadster, have to watch my pennies.

Ron.....Do you know WHICH T5 you have? There are so many variations with the gear ratios, many of which have a ridiculously low 4.03 1st gear, along with pretty wide spacing between gears. Ideally, it's a close-ratio gear set with the 2.95 1st gear to keep the revs tightly-grouped in the relatively-narrow torque band on that flatty. Generally, if the input shaft has 26-splines, it's gonna be the close ratio set. Remember, any T5 case can be re-fitted with any of the different gear sets (gear ratios). But the gear sets must be swapped as a complete set....no way to individually tailor ONE PARTICULAR gear's ratio....complete gear sets only. DD
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:42 PM   #16
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

I need an education. What is an RTS3 transmission?
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

They are good, strong transmissions, with aluminum cases! Maybe not the best for a hot rod but, they would do well in a PU, especially with a 255 ci or larger engine, with stock or mild cam.

They are also know as a Top Shift Over Drive.

They come in different gear sets, for different engines.

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Old 09-02-2019, 04:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

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I need an education. What is an RTS3 transmission?

It's a 3-speed + O/D out of an '80s Ford pick-up that guys are adapting to Model "A" and V8 Ford torque tubes. The only real gain is synchros and O/D. Gear ratios are similar to stock Model "A" 3-speed ratios. This is where the T5 excels with that extra gear (4-speed + O/D) when choosing the close ratio gear set. The RTS 3 (the second picture below), after adapting to torque tube for a Model "A". The first picture is a T5 that we adapted to the torque tube in a '35 Ford. DD


T5 trans in aa '35 Ford below:






RTS 3 below:

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Old 09-02-2019, 04:25 PM   #19
Pete
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

I have often wondered how many T5's are installed without short throw shift adapters.
That is kind of like installing a 3 carb manifold with only one carb on it.
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: STREET MACHInES, Engines, gearing and etc

Anyone ever use a ford single rail overdrive ? 83-84 vintage . I just removed one from a mustang and thought it could possibly work .
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