Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-08-2019, 11:42 AM   #1
MrPhat40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 19
Default Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Dear Ford Barner's,

Recently I posted a question about replacing the face of my 1940 Deluxe Clock. The information was very helpful, and in a thread by Kube, the rare electric clock was mentioned.
Well here are some pictures of my clock, which I thought had been a standard New Haven or West Clock converted to electric.

The back of my clock says:
Ford Made in U.S.A
Borg Instruments
Patents:
3,688,395
3,583,152
2,858,029
3,137,122

I may be off on the patent numbers as they were hard to pick out.
My only research was on the Borg Instrument Company, which according to Google did manufacture electric clocks for Ford.

Am I lucky or just wishing?

As always the knowledge and insights on this forum are just remarkable.
MrPhat40
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1227.jpg (31.9 KB, 208 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1228.jpg (50.5 KB, 223 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1229.jpg (42.5 KB, 258 views)
MrPhat40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 01:05 PM   #2
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,411
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPhat40 View Post
Dear Ford Barner's,

Recently I posted a question about replacing the face of my 1940 Deluxe Clock. The information was very helpful, and in a thread by Kube, the rare electric clock was mentioned.
Well here are some pictures of my clock, which I thought had been a standard New Haven or West Clock converted to electric.

The back of my clock says:
Ford Made in U.S.A
Borg Instruments
Patents:
3,688,395
3,583,152
2,858,029
3,137,122

I may be off on the patent numbers as they were hard to pick out.
My only research was on the Borg Instrument Company, which according to Google did manufacture electric clocks for Ford.

Am I lucky or just wishing?

As always the knowledge and insights on this forum are just remarkable.
MrPhat40
Sorry, you are wishing,
It is obvious, to me anyway, that someone converted the stock wind up clock to an electric operated clock. Regardless, this is not the elusive accessory.
__________________
"Imagination is a crutch used by those who lack knowledge and intelligence ."
B
. Franklin
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-08-2019, 02:36 PM   #3
Terry,OH
Senior Member
 
Terry,OH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,291
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Borg did make several different electric clocks for the Fords of different years but is not the Manufacturer of the 1940 Electric clock.
Terry,OH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 02:53 PM   #4
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,411
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

It seems evident that someone adapted an electric movement in to the original poster's wind up case.

Here's some information in regard to the "real McCoy":
Manufactured by the New Haven Clock Company of Connecticut, the electric clock was installed only at the dealer level. To acquire this unit, the dealer was required to send a written request directly to the New Haven Clock Company.
Since it was cumbersome to acquire and a rather costly option ($9.00 list price), apparently both dealers and buyers had little interest in this accessory. As a result, the electric clock became (perhaps arguably) the rarest of authorized accessories. Very few are seen today.
The face of the clock was identical to the wind up clock installed in all Deluxe models. Its retainer was painted dark brown and fastened to the glove box lid with four binding head screws (33176-S).

The rear of the clock differed dramatically from that of the wind up clock. Depth, shape, and a built in fuse holder topped by a red plastic cap were the most noticeable differences. Its retainer was also different from the wind up version.
Also, the wiring harness required an additional lead. Note that the authentic lamp socket is quite different from modern reproductions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg clock electric rearMK.jpg (34.9 KB, 252 views)
__________________
"Imagination is a crutch used by those who lack knowledge and intelligence ."
B
. Franklin
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 04:40 PM   #5
Karl Wescott
Senior Member
 
Karl Wescott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 753
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Just guessing, the conversion might have been done by "Instrument Services" whose tag is on the clock. They appear to still be in business (though in a different location). Their website advertises "Clock and Instrument" repai and service. https://www.clocksandgauges.com/
Karl Wescott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2019, 05:36 PM   #6
MrPhat40
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 19
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

You folks are the reason I just love the old car community in general and the
Ford Barn in particular. The knowledge pool here is so deep.
I appreciate the setting "my clock" straight. Does make sense that Instrument Services did a conversion.
Kube really appreciate the back ground on the rare !940 ford Deluxe electric clock. Very interesting story.

On to my next discovery and quest re: my old 40.

MrPhat40
MrPhat40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2019, 04:19 PM   #7
Hamtown Al
Senior Member
 
Hamtown Al's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Smithfield, Va
Posts: 818
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

This one was made by Westclox.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4491.jpg (47.2 KB, 171 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4492.jpg (50.3 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4493.jpg (37.1 KB, 171 views)
__________________
36 Fords Rule! Visit at www.36fords.com.
Hamtown Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2019, 05:21 PM   #8
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,411
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtown Al View Post
This one was made by Westclox.
Yep, that was one of two suppliers to Ford for wind up clocks, the standard issue in all '40 Deluxe passenger cars.
__________________
"Imagination is a crutch used by those who lack knowledge and intelligence ."
B
. Franklin
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 01:57 PM   #9
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 3,033
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

What is the value of an original & correct electric clock?Also, how about a fair value on a nice wind up clock and glove box door?

Trying to help out an older fellow sell some of his parts stash.

Thanks,
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2019, 02:50 PM   #10
TJ
Senior Member
 
TJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Napa,California
Posts: 4,080
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

A nice wind up clock, that works and keeps time, plus a glove box door with clock retainer should bring $200-$250. They should sell at that price. I've seen them for more, but have no idea if they sold. The battery powered repos, of which there are two, will sell for about $100-$150. One repo has hands like the original clock and the other repo has some gold modern hands. Other than the hands the two clocks look identical
TJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2019, 09:36 PM   #11
nesloyrag77
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 4
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

my 40 Merc came with an electric clock, doesn't work yet?
nesloyrag77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 05:16 PM   #12
Bronco Don
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Hi everyone,
I've been looking for a 1940 electric clock like many of you for years. I just want to make sure that I'm looking for the right one, but the more research I do the more I'm uncertain what is the right clock.


Is there any documentation or literature (besides the Early V8 Club 1940 book) on the New Haven Clock Company of Connecticut? And why is it the only FORD dealer electric clock for 1940? Why not use the same supplier that Mercury was using at the time? The wiring harness for a Deluxe car does not include wiring for an electric clock.
So is the New Haven electric clock a aftermarket accessory or a true dealer accessory?

And why is there no literature or internal FORD documentation? Who determined in The Early V8 Club 1940 book that the New Haven Clock Company was the supplier for FORD as a dealer accessory?


I'm just trying to understand is there real documentation or is it just old lore passed down through the years?


Thanks all!
Bronco Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 06:07 PM   #13
Terry,OH
Senior Member
 
Terry,OH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,291
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Bronco: The electric clock was not available in the beginning of the 40 year so many of the original 40 accessory documents do not show it. Ford did send out dealer letters announcing the availability of the clock also were to order the clock. It was only available through New Haven.
There is real documentation regarding the electric clock.
Terry,OH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 06:10 PM   #14
deuce_roadster
Senior Member
 
deuce_roadster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shelton, WA
Posts: 2,317
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

I'm sure Kube has access to the original documentation.
deuce_roadster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 07:33 PM   #15
Bronco Don
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Has anybody seen or have the real documentation regarding the electric clock?
Bronco Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2019, 07:38 PM   #16
Kube
Senior Member
 
Kube's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,411
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

BroncoDan,
I'd studied this clock thoroughly.
Please read my post #4. I can't imagine anything I'd missed.
These clocks were "real" and were authorized accessories.
I believe if you read that post carefully and absorb the details, you'll understand why they are so scarce.
I have had two in my entire life and know of only two more in existence.
__________________
"Imagination is a crutch used by those who lack knowledge and intelligence ."
B
. Franklin
Kube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 12:11 AM   #17
Bronco Don
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

With all do respect, is there real documentation or is it just old lore passed down through the years?

We know that there are 2 clocks that could fit in to a 40 FORD Deluxe. West Clock and Borg Instruments. The West Clock and Borg Instrument 30 day are the only ones that I can find that the FORD Deluxe used. I believe New Haven made a electric clock that fit the 40 Deluxe, but I donít think it was a dealer accessory.Why would they make only a couple of electric clocks for dealer accessory later in the year? Why wouldnít FORD use the Mercury line (Geo W Borg electric clock) that they were producing in larger numbers? Iím not disbelieving the story, Iím trying understand is it real or lore? It could be true, but with out documents or literature its lore and not a real FORD authorized accessories. How did you studied this clock thoroughly? Where did you get your info from? I agree that there is no FORD info about the electric clock in there 1940 Catalog or the referents manual. Iíve added pics of these books for reference. Iím not trying to attack your story. Iím just try to understand where did it come from. I do want to believe this version, but Iím not sure about it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1 Catalog.JPG (197.8 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 2 Catalog.JPG (160.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 3 Catalog.JPG (180.0 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg 4 Manual.JPG (129.5 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 5 Manual.jpg (23.6 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 6 Manual.jpg (48.3 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg 7 Manual.jpg (35.3 KB, 29 views)
Bronco Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 08:37 AM   #18
Terry,OH
Senior Member
 
Terry,OH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,291
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Oh ye of little faith:
I think it is good you ask!


Ford Motor Company
Milwaukee, Wis
Service Letter #1
Feb. 14, 1940
page 3
A scan of the document is below.

1940 Dlx. Fords used the Westclox and the New Haven hand wound clocks. Borgs were not used in 1940 Fords.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 1940 electric clock introduction.pdf (119.8 KB, 54 views)

Last edited by Terry,OH; 11-21-2019 at 11:58 AM.
Terry,OH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 08:54 AM   #19
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 5,392
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco Don View Post
With all do respect, is there real documentation or is it just old lore passed down through the years?

I believe Iíve added pics of these books for reference. Iím not trying to attack your story. Iím just try to understand where did it come from. I do want to believe this version, but Iím not sure about it.

Welcome to FordBarn, Bronco Don! I see that you came on board officially just a little over a year ago.


Now, with all DUE respect, it's seemingly obvious that you haven't gotten to really know some of the regular participants in this forum community. Lots of different types of folks here among us, such as the "relative newbies" like yourself, likely trying to gather serious information about an old Ford V8 that they somehow became the keeper thereof. And, there are some that frequent the forum almost daily that don't even own an old car...they merely have the interest, and likely just enjoy the camaraderie that this site offers in abundance. There are guys and even the occasional gal around here that own more than one old Ford, not to mention those that also own different varieties of "off brand" vehicles, even a Ford flathead V8-powered WWII tank-like armored vehicle, for instance. Can't begin to tell ya how many young folks AND old geezers there are onboard that just come here to swap and share an unbelievable and priceless cache of knowledge and experience that they have amassed with these old, used cars over the decades. What you MAY not realize yet is that there are some people, and somewhat more than just a few here on this site, that take this stuff SERIOUSLY....like you have no idea just how seriously! As an example, we have one particular 1932 Ford guy that has spent the better part of his life owning, restoring, lecturing and writing nationally and globally-acclaimed reference and judging materials, documents, books and manuals. This walking encyclopedia of things "old Ford" learned it all the hard way, traveling the globe in search of parts, cars, information, and not to forget that he spent much of his career in the top floor offices of Ford, including rubbing elbows with Henry II and other notables on a daily basis. He's a "regular" here on the 'Barn and is more than gracious in sharing his unprecedented research and knowledge when it comes to 1932 Fords. One more fellow FordBarner of note is Mike Kubarth, who goes by "Kube" on these pages. You've seen some of Kube's posts right here in this thread. Kube is not only the '39-'40 Ford "go to" guy here on the 'Barn...his 1939 and 1940 restorations regularly judge at 1,000 and 999 points, and have been nationally recognized and sought-after for many years now. Mike is one of those guys who admittedly is driven to absolute authenticity and perfection by his self-proclaimed OCD. Mike is a retired tool and die guy, well experienced in the business world, and like I mentioned earlier, beyond passionate when it comes to accurate information and authenticity. Your kind offer for us to peruse your informational books and pamphlets is well-taken. What you likely don't realize is that there is a plethora of available information, data and official documentation of unimaginable extent and content in the official Ford archives at The Benson Ford Research Center in Dearborn, MI. These serious guys don't just look at pamphlets like you show, nor do they just pull this stuff out of their collective butts. These extensive facilities in Dearborn are accessible to the public. Some of these serious guys have made MANY trips and spent hundreds of hours at the center researching whatever topic and era of vehicle that they have need for. Kube is getting close to finishing-up his long-awaited and much-needed 1940 Ford judging manual for the Early Ford V8 Club of America. It's an endeavor that Mike has put MANY years and umpteen hundreds of hours of sweat, frustration, research and elbow grease into. You can be assured that ANY information that makes it into the final printing of that book, or even onto the pages of this forum, is factual and without doubt well-documented. Not only does Kube's information come from written documents...this guy has owned well over 200 1940 Fords, with a few '39s thrown in there for good measure, since he caught the bug at about age 14 when he and his brother would scour the weekend newspapers in Chicago and Milwaukee, then head out to see what kind of '40 they could buy and turn during any particular week. Over the years, Mike has been able to pick-apart, photograph and document all of these ORIGINAL cars with a vengeance. So, for what it's worth, if Kube makes a statement pertaining to a '40 Ford, you can take it to the bank. I believe that most anyone here will tell ya that there's not another breathing soul on the planet with more 1940 Ford expertise than Mike KubarthÖ.PERIOD! That clock info that Kube gave you above...it's true scoop! Hoping you enjoy your time here on the FordBarn. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


I may not be the BEST, but I'll do 'til he gets here!




V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2019, 10:51 AM   #20
rockfla
Senior Member
 
rockfla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 1,333
Default Re: Could It Be :The rare 1940 Ford Deluxe Electric Clock

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Welcome to FordBarn, Bronco Don! I see that you came on board officially just a little over a year ago.


Now, with all DUE respect, it's seemingly obvious that you haven't gotten to really know some of the regular participants in this forum community. Lots of different types of folks here among us, such as the "relative newbies" like yourself, likely trying to gather serious information about an old Ford V8 that they somehow became the keeper thereof. And, there are some that frequent the forum almost daily that don't even own an old car...they merely have the interest, and likely just enjoy the camaraderie that this site offers in abundance. There are guys and even the occasional gal around here that own more than one old Ford, not to mention those that also own different varieties of "off brand" vehicles, even a Ford flathead V8-powered WWII tank-like armored vehicle, for instance. Can't begin to tell ya how many young folks AND old geezers there are onboard that just come here to swap and share an unbelievable and priceless cache of knowledge and experience that they have amassed with these old, used cars over the decades. What you MAY not realize yet is that there are some people, and somewhat more than just a few here on this site, that take this stuff SERIOUSLY....like you have no idea just how seriously! As an example, we have one particular 1932 Ford guy that has spent the better part of his life owning, restoring, lecturing and writing nationally and globally-acclaimed reference and judging materials, documents, books and manuals. This walking encyclopedia of things "old Ford" learned it all the hard way, traveling the globe in search of parts, cars, information, and not to forget that he spent much of his career in the top floor offices of Ford, including rubbing elbows with Henry II and other notables on a daily basis. He's a "regular" here on the 'Barn and is more than gracious in sharing his unprecedented research and knowledge when it comes to 1932 Fords. One more fellow FordBarner of note is Mike Kubarth, who goes by "Kube" on these pages. You've seen some of Kube's posts right here in this thread. Kube is not only the '39-'40 Ford "go to" guy here on the 'Barn...his 1939 and 1940 restorations regularly judge at 1,000 and 999 points, and have been nationally recognized and sought-after for many years now. Mike is one of those guys who admittedly is driven to absolute authenticity and perfection by his self-proclaimed OCD. Mike is a retired tool and die guy, well experienced in the business world, and like I mentioned earlier, beyond passionate when it comes to accurate information and authenticity. Your kind offer for us to peruse your informational books and pamphlets is well-taken. What you likely don't realize is that there is a plethora of available information, data and official documentation of unimaginable extent and content in the official Ford archives at The Benson Ford Research Center in Dearborn, MI. These serious guys don't just look at pamphlets like you show, nor do they just pull this stuff out of their collective butts. These extensive facilities in Dearborn are accessible to the public. Some of these serious guys have made MANY trips and spent hundreds of hours at the center researching whatever topic and era of vehicle that they have need for. Kube is getting close to finishing-up his long-awaited and much-needed 1940 Ford judging manual for the Early Ford V8 Club of America. It's an endeavor that Mike has put MANY years and umpteen hundreds of hours of sweat, frustration, research and elbow grease into. You can be assured that ANY information that makes it into the final printing of that book, or even onto the pages of this forum, is factual and without doubt well-documented. Not only does Kube's information come from written documents...this guy has owned well over 200 1940 Fords, with a few '39s thrown in there for good measure, since he caught the bug at about age 14 when he and his brother would scour the weekend newspapers in Chicago and Milwaukee, then head out to see what kind of '40 they could buy and turn during any particular week. Over the years, Mike has been able to pick-apart, photograph and document all of these ORIGINAL cars with a vengeance. So, for what it's worth, if Kube makes a statement pertaining to a '40 Ford, you can take it to the bank. I believe that most anyone here will tell ya that there's not another breathing soul on the planet with more 1940 Ford expertise than Mike Kubarth….PERIOD! That clock info that Kube gave you above...it's true scoop! Hoping you enjoy your time here on the FordBarn. DD

VERY well written and excellent advice!!!
rockfla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.