The Ford Barn

Daves55Sedan · 05-25-2022, 11:42 PM

I've been reading some of Ted Eaton's stuff, but I am skeptical of different types of timing chain/sprocket sets since the guy that picked this timing chain out of all he had to offer met with the type of driving I was doing at the time (mostly hiway 60mph, but no drag racing stuff). It's been like a zillion years since I had him do the machine work on this engine block and I have been very satisfied with it's performance.
As far as the harmonic balancer, it is solid as a rock and there is no way the balancer would have shifted 1-1/2 inches just with a few presses of the remote start button to get #1 cylinder at TDC from where it was, maybe half a revolution of the crankshaft.

I'm hoping I can swap the timing chain and sprockets with a new set with the engine sill in the car with radiator removed, but it looks like it will be very difficult to see those little timing marks on the sprockets and to double check the number of pins between the marks. One off and it wont work.

KULTULZ · 05-26-2022, 02:57 AM

Now this is just me but I wouldn't go forward without positive TDC location with a piston stop.

MELLINGS and CLOYES are (were) good quality for a driver.

Was the balancer indexed when the machine work was done. It doesn't take a whole lot to make one slip.

Back in the old days, the balancer would be indexed and pinned so as to prevent any future movements. Those 8000 RPM hole-shots in the HS parking lot can take it's toll ...

Flathead Fever · 05-26-2022, 11:07 AM

Rock Auto is a great place to buy quality parts. But who knows if any of the old reliable manufacturer's parts are quality anymore? Everybody is having problems with just about all new parts for old cars, since nothing is made here anymore. Melling's was good, so was TRW and Cloyes. Run a double roller chain if you can get one and replace the front seal while your there. Oil it up so it doesn't start off dry.

Hot Rod Reverend · 05-26-2022, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Now this is just me but I wouldn't go forward without positive TDC location with a piston stop.

I could not agree more. I just swapped a stock cam and timing gears for a Rollmaster setup and Isky E4 and took some video and pictures. There are 3 videos on my YouTube channel and at the risk of getting flamed out and passing the popcorn I will put one of those links here. I used the piston stop to find TDC of course and to get me spot on with the degree wheel.

If you think it is hard to see the timing marks on the set while the engine block is still in the car, try recording video and such while you do the work!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvOitjlaPeQ

KULTULZ · 05-26-2022, 01:33 PM

Quote:

... at the risk of getting flamed out ...

I don't think you have to worry about that as you provide invaluable information.

Daves55Sedan · 05-31-2022, 09:37 PM

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Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. I have a hard time trying to get my yard straightened out every spring and it takes priority over the junker, since have two other vehicles to drive.
After digging out weeds and working in my vegetable garden today, I went back in the garage and cranked the engine using a remote start button to get to TDC based upon the timing mark on the balancer, the #1 piston at top of the stroke and both #1 valves closed. I had left #1 spark plug out and the valve cover off last time I worked on it. I am now convinced that the timing chain is NOT at fault, since the rotor in the distributor is pointing directly at tower socket#1 on the cap.
Next I charged some batteries and put them in my multi-meter again. After I disconnected the car battery and removed the ignition coil, I tested it on the meter.
This is the cast epoxy coil that has been on there since the 1980's. The (+) to (-) readings (primary to secondary) is 3/4 - 1 ohm. The needle of the meter slowly moving as it gets close to the 1 ohm mark. That is much too low. Should be around 1.5 to 1.6 ohms. Then I test the tower output by placing the (-) probe on the coil (-) primary terminal and sticking the (+) probe in the tower socket. It reads 16,000 ohms. Also not good as it should not exceed 12,000 ohms.
So then I get an old oil-filled 6-volt coil out that used to be on my other Y-block engine. It is also many decades old and it was removed and placed in storage in 1996.
The (+) to (-) readings (primary to secondary) is 1.5 ohms. The tower output reading is 10,000 ohms. The spec calls for this to be between 8,000-12,000 ohms, so I am calling this one good.
I removed the cast epoxy coil from my bracket and installed the oil-filled coil and hooked up the wiring. I also did check the coil secondary wire for continuity between it's own end terminals in which there was zero resistance and checked one of it's terminals against case ground in which there is maximum resistance (points open). But that does not necessarily mean that there isn't a worn spot on the insulation under the breaker plate. I would like to assume not. This is one of those modern replacement one-piece wire with the integral rubber plug that goes thru the distributor housing. While this is a fine machine tool wire, they need to be very flexible to allow movement of the breaker plate. But if this wire is at fault i have two other used ones that look good.
It got too dark to go any further, but next I intend to check the condenser, or just replace it.
So other than that secondary coil wire or the condenser, what else could it be. That is a brand new condenser btw, but I know you can't trust them.

Daves55Sedan · 06-03-2022, 10:25 PM

Today I decided to take the distributor out of the engine. I clamped it between two pieces of wood in the workbench vice and removed the chinese points that have the funky contacts. I looked at the rotor tension clip on the dizzy shaft and noticed it was nearly flat and the rotor was a tiny bit loose, so I decided to improve it. I got my punch set out and found a round bar suitable for obtaining the little bump and I spacked it with a hammer using a long square punch on top of the round bar. It worked. I put it back on the shaft and now the rotor fits nice and tight on the shaft like it did when it was new. I also pulled the points to coil wire out of the dizzy and inspected it. It was flawless so i put it back in. The bare ground wire is also in good condition and the connection to the dizzy housing is tight. The screw that holds the condenser bracket down to the breaker plate was stripped, so I tapped the screw hole in the breaker plate and found a new screw of the proper thread, but a little bit longer than the original, yet it does not interfere with the bottom of the dizzy housing or the bare ground wire under the breaker plate. I had to bend the condenser bracket a little to get the holes lined up and screwed the condenser back on to the breaker plate. It is a new one from NAPA. I installed a new set of points from NAPA. These are nice, with the phenolic cam rubbing block and OEM point contacts. I adjusted the gap with a feeler guage at .016 inch. Now with the condenser wire disconnected from the points, I attempted to test the new condenser with my multimeter. With setting to ohms and maximum resistance range the needle moves to zero resistance when the two probes are touched together as it should be, but when I touch the probes to the condenser case and wire, there is very little movement of the needle and it stays at that reading. That is not right. The needle should move to zero resistance then back to maximum to discharge itself. So I tested 4 other new NAPA condensers. They all act the same as the one in the distributor. I'm stumped. I'm not going to put the dizzy back in the engine till I find out what is wrong.

05-25-2022, 11:42 PM	#21
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: Y-Block perpetual misfire I've been reading some of Ted Eaton's stuff, but I am skeptical of different types of timing chain/sprocket sets since the guy that picked this timing chain out of all he had to offer met with the type of driving I was doing at the time (mostly hiway 60mph, but no drag racing stuff). It's been like a zillion years since I had him do the machine work on this engine block and I have been very satisfied with it's performance. As far as the harmonic balancer, it is solid as a rock and there is no way the balancer would have shifted 1-1/2 inches just with a few presses of the remote start button to get #1 cylinder at TDC from where it was, maybe half a revolution of the crankshaft. I'm hoping I can swap the timing chain and sprockets with a new set with the engine sill in the car with radiator removed, but it looks like it will be very difficult to see those little timing marks on the sprockets and to double check the number of pins between the marks. One off and it wont work.

05-26-2022, 02:57 AM	#22
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,472	Re: Y-Block perpetual misfire Now this is just me but I wouldn't go forward without positive TDC location with a piston stop. MELLINGS and CLOYES are (were) good quality for a driver. Was the balancer indexed when the machine work was done. It doesn't take a whole lot to make one slip. Back in the old days, the balancer would be indexed and pinned so as to prevent any future movements. Those 8000 RPM hole-shots in the HS parking lot can take it's toll ... __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

05-26-2022, 11:07 AM	#23
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,095	Re: Y-Block perpetual misfire Rock Auto is a great place to buy quality parts. But who knows if any of the old reliable manufacturer's parts are quality anymore? Everybody is having problems with just about all new parts for old cars, since nothing is made here anymore. Melling's was good, so was TRW and Cloyes. Run a double roller chain if you can get one and replace the front seal while your there. Oil it up so it doesn't start off dry.

05-31-2022, 09:37 PM	#26
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: Y-Block perpetual misfire Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. I have a hard time trying to get my yard straightened out every spring and it takes priority over the junker, since have two other vehicles to drive. After digging out weeds and working in my vegetable garden today, I went back in the garage and cranked the engine using a remote start button to get to TDC based upon the timing mark on the balancer, the #1 piston at top of the stroke and both #1 valves closed. I had left #1 spark plug out and the valve cover off last time I worked on it. I am now convinced that the timing chain is NOT at fault, since the rotor in the distributor is pointing directly at tower socket#1 on the cap. Next I charged some batteries and put them in my multi-meter again. After I disconnected the car battery and removed the ignition coil, I tested it on the meter. This is the cast epoxy coil that has been on there since the 1980's. The (+) to (-) readings (primary to secondary) is 3/4 - 1 ohm. The needle of the meter slowly moving as it gets close to the 1 ohm mark. That is much too low. Should be around 1.5 to 1.6 ohms. Then I test the tower output by placing the (-) probe on the coil (-) primary terminal and sticking the (+) probe in the tower socket. It reads 16,000 ohms. Also not good as it should not exceed 12,000 ohms. So then I get an old oil-filled 6-volt coil out that used to be on my other Y-block engine. It is also many decades old and it was removed and placed in storage in 1996. The (+) to (-) readings (primary to secondary) is 1.5 ohms. The tower output reading is 10,000 ohms. The spec calls for this to be between 8,000-12,000 ohms, so I am calling this one good. I removed the cast epoxy coil from my bracket and installed the oil-filled coil and hooked up the wiring. I also did check the coil secondary wire for continuity between it's own end terminals in which there was zero resistance and checked one of it's terminals against case ground in which there is maximum resistance (points open). But that does not necessarily mean that there isn't a worn spot on the insulation under the breaker plate. I would like to assume not. This is one of those modern replacement one-piece wire with the integral rubber plug that goes thru the distributor housing. While this is a fine machine tool wire, they need to be very flexible to allow movement of the breaker plate. But if this wire is at fault i have two other used ones that look good. It got too dark to go any further, but next I intend to check the condenser, or just replace it. So other than that secondary coil wire or the condenser, what else could it be. That is a brand new condenser btw, but I know you can't trust them.

06-03-2022, 10:25 PM	#27
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: Y-Block perpetual misfire Today I decided to take the distributor out of the engine. I clamped it between two pieces of wood in the workbench vice and removed the chinese points that have the funky contacts. I looked at the rotor tension clip on the dizzy shaft and noticed it was nearly flat and the rotor was a tiny bit loose, so I decided to improve it. I got my punch set out and found a round bar suitable for obtaining the little bump and I spacked it with a hammer using a long square punch on top of the round bar. It worked. I put it back on the shaft and now the rotor fits nice and tight on the shaft like it did when it was new. I also pulled the points to coil wire out of the dizzy and inspected it. It was flawless so i put it back in. The bare ground wire is also in good condition and the connection to the dizzy housing is tight. The screw that holds the condenser bracket down to the breaker plate was stripped, so I tapped the screw hole in the breaker plate and found a new screw of the proper thread, but a little bit longer than the original, yet it does not interfere with the bottom of the dizzy housing or the bare ground wire under the breaker plate. I had to bend the condenser bracket a little to get the holes lined up and screwed the condenser back on to the breaker plate. It is a new one from NAPA. I installed a new set of points from NAPA. These are nice, with the phenolic cam rubbing block and OEM point contacts. I adjusted the gap with a feeler guage at .016 inch. Now with the condenser wire disconnected from the points, I attempted to test the new condenser with my multimeter. With setting to ohms and maximum resistance range the needle moves to zero resistance when the two probes are touched together as it should be, but when I touch the probes to the condenser case and wire, there is very little movement of the needle and it stays at that reading. That is not right. The needle should move to zero resistance then back to maximum to discharge itself. So I tested 4 other new NAPA condensers. They all act the same as the one in the distributor. I'm stumped. I'm not going to put the dizzy back in the engine till I find out what is wrong.