Last years body on this years car

[jmerson]

This is only for Fords. The '38 Deluxe body is the same as the '39 Standard and the '39 Deluxe is about the same as the '40 Standard for a lot of the models.
OK, now my question?? Has anyone ever seen or heard of a '32 Roadster having a '31 body??? I have one with a really low, less than number 50 serial number and it has doors that are only 23"s and they overlay at the body and they should be 26"s. To me that means only one thing,,, Model A, not Model B.

[1931 flamingo]

Pic's of the body (doors, cowl, dash) would help. It's probably a 31, but registered in 32 and somebody "screwed" up. What is the VIN, 4 cyl or V8??
Paul in CT

[petehoovie]

What Paul said....Pictures, please....

[DavidG]

Lots of leftover '31s sold and registered in 1932. Reminiscent of the period before the introduction of Model A in 1928, Ford dealers had nothing else to sell until early April, 1932 and even later for the smaller dealers. (At the March 30th public introduction less than half the dealers had actual vehicles to display and most had only display boards with photos to show to potential customers.)

[skidmarks]

Or could it be a old hotrod. 31 body on 32 frame

[Charlie Stephens]

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The Model A body is not a bolt on to the '32 frame so something else is going on. Pictures, if you can't post them pm me.

Charlie Stephens

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

The Model A body is not a bolt on to the '32 frame so something else is going on. Pictures, if you can't post them pm me.

Charlie Stephens

The biggest issue is the trunk floor, but without a picture it could be a basket case or something else.

I have done them and it's not that much work

[jmerson]

OK, How do you attach a photo? Step by step please. I'm not stupid but close.

[JSeery]

The file size is the most common issue. The photo file needs to be around 500kb or less. To post under Quick Responce select Go Advanced. On the Go Advanced page enter your text message and then click on the arrow to the right of the Paperclip. A pop-up menu will appear. Click on the Select File tab and locate the photo file on your computer. Then select Upload. Wait for the information for the file to appear. Then go back to the Go Advanced page and select Submit Reply.

[jmerson]

Thank you and i'll give it a try.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by jmerson

OK, How do you attach a photo? Step by step please. I'm not stupid but close.

What are you working with? MAC, PC, cell phone, iPad? JSeery is correct, most common problem is size.

Charlie Stephens

[DavidG]

You can normally downsize the pixels by sending the photos to yourself by e-mail and using those photos for the purpose of posting them on this site.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by DavidG

You can normally downsize the pixels by sending the photos to yourself by e-mail and using those photos for the purpose of posting them on this site.

This has worked for me every time I used it.

[jmerson]

I have an Androlid cell phone and when i hook it up to the computer with a USB cord I'm not getting the online request to either download or do some other function like i used to. I had a S5 and i took a dump so now i have a J3 which is about the same quality of phone and program, but later version. I'll give it another try tomorrow and see if i can get something transferred over. It shouldn't be this hard and it never used to be.
Jim

[JSeery]

I have never tried it over a USB cable. What I have gone would be to email the photo file to the phone email folder. Then move it to the photo galley on the phone. And then use the Barn attach application.

[Mart]

When you plug the phone into the computer via usb you should see a dialog box appear and one of the options is to display the files. It might say connect as a media device. You should see a folder with the name of the phone. This is like an external drive. In there should be a folder called phone. In there should be a folder called camera and in there one called dcim. In there should be the image files.

That's how mine works anyway.

[JSeery]

Ok, Mart, I was thinking the other direction! If the box doesn't open up try this. On your computer (I have Windows 10) select files, then at the top you can select an up arrow. When you get to the page that list the drives connected to the computer you should see the hard drives, disk drives, etc. There should be one that list you phone. Select it and find the folders that have yours photos (like Mart Posted). If you phone is anything like mine, there will be hundreds of them! I find the ones I want and move them to the desktop. BUT, you will still have the file size issue.

[jmerson]

This is some of the roadster in question. The serial number is less than 60, as in 500060 which leads me to believe it was an early roadster as the engine is the frame number as well. 60 for all '32's is really low and could very well have been the first roadster built in '32, or at least it was one of the first. That may be why it has a '31 body.

[jmerson]

The local EXPERTS seem to think the cowl is also a '31 but the way the air vent was done is like it was crimped into an opening cut into the cowl. You would think if an individual was going to do this he would cut the whole vent out and weld in the total vent but this is almost like the cowl was made to have the vent set into it. That also makes me thing maybe it was done by the factory??? The problem is the owner for the past 67 years is dead. The mystery goes on.

[tubman]

Boy, somebody sure built them self a neat hot rod!

[Mart]

The overwhelming probability is that it is a 30 or 31 body put onto 32 rails by a previous owner or a shop employed by a previous owner. Whoever did it did a very tidy job and took care to make it look well finished. It is more street rod than hot rod or resto so it probably has a high percentage of non original parts. It might be a Brookville body. It's hard to tell from the photos.

Henry was not making cars in ones and twos but by the thousands. The car in question would not have left the Ford factory with that body/chassis combo.

My educated appraisal. (Ok, guess!)

Mart.

[Tudortomnz]

Who can say what any car could have been as new after 90 years? This is a well worked over hot rod which do not respect originality.
In late '31 & early '32, Ford had the B4 all ready to go [with the all new bodies] but would not release them until the V8 engine was ready for production, hence the April release of the 1932 Fords. So extremely unlikely a Model A roadster was put on a '32 chassis. Cheers.

[petehoovie]

[mercman from oz]

Larger picture of the Ford Roadster in question.

[skidmarks]

Were does the door overlap?
The quarters look short like a model A. I think brookville did offer a 32 cowl vent on a 30 31 body.

But it is just a streetrod

[DavidG]

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I think you need to shift gears in your thinking that the car 'may' have been one of the first '32 roadsters built. Assuming that the 5000060 number that you cite was that of its original four-cylinder engine, all that tells us is that it was an early '32 four-cylinder engine. (The prefix would have been AB stamped into the frame ahead of the 5000060 and almost certainly on the original title or registration.) The well documented facts are that all of the earliest '32 passenger cars were built with V8 engines with numbers starting with 18-1 and that no four-cylinder passenger cars were produced until April, 1932, the second month of '32 model production.

Further, it is also a well-documented fact that over 40,000 four-cylinder engines had been produced prior to any of them being installed in production vehicles, given the decision taken to await the availability of production versions of V8 engines, and that based on surviving unmodified examples of low-number four-cylinder passenger cars, there is no strong correlation between a low engine number and the rest of the vehicle's chassis and body components. In other words, those 40,000 plus engine/transmission assemblies did not come out of inventory on a first-in, first out basis.

In summary, if that engine number is the car's original, it was a four when built at the very earliest a month after '32 model Job#1, long after many hundreds of V8-powered roadsters had been produced.

Why not just enjoy it for what it is and not try and solve a mystery where judging from the photos, nearly all of the clues have been obliterated.

[Automotive Stud]

I like that we're debating the originality of a hot rod haha. It looks like a nicely done A roadster on a deuce frame. I don't care what the title says that's what it is. They really wanted it to look like a deuce with that windshield frame and stanchion setup.

[jmerson]

This is to shed a little more light on the subject. I'm not trying to do anything other than get to the bottom of What is this Car? What I do know is the owner, who has passed away a few months ago was from Stockton, CA and i knew him as a teenager and we all ran around together. I was a flathead guy and he was a four banger guy. That means we didn't agree on too many things, but we were still friends. He bought the car from a local wrecking yard here in town for $25 in 1951 and raced it in 1952 at El Mirage Dry Lakes. The car to this day has a plaque on the dash from the SCTA stating that on May of 1952 at El Mirage he was clocked at 123.52 MPH. The hand pump for pressurizing the fuel tank and a Fire Extingusher are still mounted in the car.
I was disapointed when i discovered that it wasn't a '32 full fendeed roadster as it was predented to me. It is a '32 frame, fenders, fuel tank, grill, dash, cowl vent, windshield and pretty much everything but the body from the back of the body to the front of the cowl. Neverless, it is a beautiful car and one to be proud of, even though it isn't a complete '32.
At least it's all Henry except for the engine, transmillion, rear end wheels and a few other things, but it is a Henry body.
I went up there thinking I was going to get a flathead with Ardun heads and wound up with a 383 Stroker, 350 and an Olds rearend.
It's a nice Hot Rod and nothing to be ashamed to drive anywhere.
By the way, the Vin# is 18500055 so it started out as a V8 and not a four banger as someone stated.
I have some pictures but before i loose this post i'm sending it and the pictures are coming.

[DavidG]

You previously did not mention the prefix. Now that we know that it is '18", that's one more flaw in the story as 18-500055 is the number of an engine produced in September, 1933.

[skidmarks]

The 32 chassis could have been out from under any body style not necessarily a roadster.

My first guess before pictures were post was correct a Model A on a 32 frame.

Seen plenty of timing tags attached to cars too

[tubman]

Time can be hard to understand, but please remember that 1951 was 19 years after 1932. A lot could have happened in those intervening 19 years. Face it; you're chasing rainbows.

[jmerson]

You guys are a hard bunch to convince that there isn't any hanky panky going on. The guy that bought and owned the car since 1951 has passed away and his present wife doesn't know anything about cars. The people that really know anything about this car are all dead. What happened between 1951 and 2019 is anyones guess other than he drove this car a lot. As i stated before he had a shop in Sparks,NV, Adams Custom Engine and he did a lot of frame off restorations plus he was the mechanic for The Tahoe Miss hydroplane boat back in the '60's or 1970's. He also was licensed to work in the pits at Indy and had the papers to prove it. I sure would like to have the opertuinity to question him and get to the bottom of it but not going to happen so case closed.
It's been nice chating with you all.
Later,


Jim

[Mart]

If the bodywork is near perfect inside and out then it might be a Brookville body. The previous owner sounds like a highly talented guy and perfectly capable of building a very nice A on 32 rails. Nothing wrong with an a on 32 rails, I have one myself.

If it was presented to you as a 32 roadster and you didn't realise until after you bought it that it was not a 32 then you must be disappointed.

The one little glimmer of hope that it may have left Ford's factory like that is, unfortunately unfounded. It would have been nice if there was a batch of 10 roadsters built like that and you had one, but unfortunately that never happened.

It is, however a very nice A on 32 rails and a car you can be proud of. Enjoy it for what it is. you can take reassurance in the fact that the fella that built it knew what he was doing. That isn't always the case.

Mart.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by jmerson

You guys are a hard bunch to convince that there isn't any hanky panky going on. The guy that bought and owned the car since 1951 has passed away and his present wife doesn't know anything about cars. The people that really know anything about this car are all dead. What happened between 1951 and 2019 is anyones guess other than he drove this car a lot. As i stated before he had a shop in Sparks,NV, Adams Custom Engine and he did a lot of frame off restorations plus he was the mechanic for The Tahoe Miss hydroplane boat back in the '60's or 1970's. He also was licensed to work in the pits at Indy and had the papers to prove it. I sure would like to have the opertuinity to question him and get to the bottom of it but not going to happen so case closed.
It's been nice chating with you all.
Later,




Jim

Jmerson
It's funny how you come to a public forum AND ASK for opinions AND when you don't get the answers you "supposedly" are seeking, snatch your toys up and pout your way out!!! You have gotten answers from arguably "THE MOST" knowledgeable on 32 Fords and you still don't want to accept the "fact" that at face value, it appears you bought a story......and a 32 Roadster Hot Rod. You remind me of the story of George Washington's axe......Its had two new heads and three new handles put on it BUT its George Washington's Axe!" This on top of the fact you come to a site who's "main" focus is "originality
" asking questions about a car that has been altered, messaged, cut, replaced and changed from "original"!!!! IF you are truly mad and have left.....good riddance!!! IF you are still following your post......let it go.....lighten up and just enjoy the car you bought!!!!

[jmerson]

Oh! rockfla has a bad attitude. I liked Mart's answer a lot better.
I started this thread to see if anyone had ever seen different years bodies on current years cars? If you look at the original post it reads, My question, Has anyone ever seen or heard of a '32 roadster having a '31 body?? Now i'm not asking for an OPINION, i'm asking for a fact, had anyone ever seen an earllier years body on a later years car. Simple a yes or no question. I don't mind all of the remarks but don't accuse me of pouting or running away because i don't like the answers. I'm accountable for what i say but not for what others say or think about me. I'm not going anwhere and i have a nice shop and live in Stockton,CA and you all are welcome to come bye and check me out anytime you want.

[woodiewagon46]

I can't tell because of the pictures, but the '32 roadster quarters have, for the lack of better words, "flares" around the rear fenders. Coupes don't have them and your car doesn't have them. I'm thinking that the rear quarters are Model A. Can you post some interior shots of the trunk area and the fender well behind the tire. Even the proportions of the slope of the trunk area looks different than '32.

[skidmarks]

Yes. I have seen tons of 32 ford frames with Model A bodys.
Brooksville has a roller package you can buy this way.

Originally Posted by jmerson

Oh! rockfla has a bad attitude. I liked Mart's answer a lot better.
I started this thread to see if anyone had ever seen different years bodies on current years cars? If you look at the original post it reads, My question, Has anyone ever seen or heard of a '32 roadster having a '31 body?? Now i'm not asking for an OPINION, i'm asking for a fact, had anyone ever seen an earllier years body on a later years car. Simple a yes or no question. I don't mind all of the remarks but don't accuse me of pouting or running away because i don't like the answers. I'm accountable for what i say but not for what others say or think about me. I'm not going anwhere and i have a nice shop and live in Stockton,CA and you all are welcome to come bye and check me out anytime you want.

[JSeery]

jmerson, you came to the right place for your question. Several folks that frequent this site literally wrote the book(s) on these years of Ford vehicles. They have years of hands on experience and have spent many hours researching original Ford documentation, engineering releases, etc. So you can be sure you are getting the best inputs there are to be had. Now, this is an open forum and anyone can post on it, so you do need to sort the facts from the opinions. It's just the nature of these type of formats.

[woodiewagon46]

There is also something going on with the front end of the frame. It looks like the frame horns are cut off and the bumper brackets are too far back, with the bumper touching the tips of the fenders.

[Gumpy]

WOW...that is a beautiful car...nice rod!!

[jmerson]

A little fuel for the fire!!! I have some photos of the rear fenders on this car and some from my '30 Coupe and they are not the same shape. The fenders are definitely '32 so i can't see how the body could be a '31 or earlier?? OPPS, the photos are too large so i'll have to fix that. The '32 fender has the offset at the bottom near the running board while the '32 is wider and straight to the frame. All of the dimensions are also a little different as you move from front to back. I'm not sure what went on back then but there are more questions than answers at this point, but hopefully the answer will be found?

[Mart]

Jmerson, sorry but the fire went out a while ago.

The car was put together by a very talented builder, using either original or repro 32 and model A parts. he carefully and skilfully fit and modified the whold package to sit well and look good.

It was not put together in one of Henry's factorys though. Maybe some of the parts were, but not in one single unit.

Mart.

[deuce_roadster]

I think the answer to the original question is obvious. Of course there are tons of 32 frames with Model A bodies running around, however zero came out of a Ford factory with late 33 VIN stamped into it. My guess is a 32 frame originally with a B VIN had the B stamped into a 8 and an I added to make it an "18" and a talented body man modified an original model A roadster to look similar to a 32. An early made version of a very common car seen today.

[Stretch Cab]

Have you tried finding any old pictures of the car when it was raced? Might be some history out there in some old albums.

[DavidG]

Mart,


Amen!

[philipswanson]

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Originally Posted by JSeery

The file size is the most common issue. The photo file needs to be around 500kb or less. To post under Quick Responce select Go Advanced.

Stuck on the first step. How do I find Quick Response and Go Advanced?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by philipswanson

Stuck on the first step. How do I find Quick Response and Go Advanced?

When you bring up the post window, "Go Advanced" is at the bottom next to "Submit Reply". I just took a screen shot of the post I had up. On the red bar and on the far left is "Quick Reply". If you look below that (as shown in the second screen shot) there is "Post Quick Reply" & "Go Advanced", you select "Go Advanced".

The Advanced Page opens up. Along the top of the window is a happy face and next to it a paper clip. Click on the small down arrow next to the paper clip (to the right of it).

From there you should get a pop-up window to manage attachments. You select the top Browse button which will take you to your computer files. You select the file(s) you want to post and then select the "Upload" next to the bottom Browse button. And then wait for it to show up under the attachments section.

The bottom section of the Manage Attachments window list the size restrictions for each type of file.

After the file you selected appears in the attachment section just go back to the original Quick Reply window and select Post Quick Reply or Save Changes or whatever it is currently calling itself.

[jmerson]

[QUOTE=Mart;1827121]Jmerson, sorry but the fire went out a while ago.



Mart, That's the trouble with you young whippper-snappers, you give up too easyly. I'm going to keep trying until i get to the bottom up this mystery. I've known this guy all of my adult life and i can't believe he is a phony. Look him up on Google and read some of his accomplishments and you will have a better understanding of my quest. I really don't care if people don't believe in this guy but if you had ever seen him and some of the work he did you would have a different feeling for this car. As i said before, i bought the car thinking it was something other than what it is but i wouldn't get rid of it now for any price. It's a beatiful car, looks great, runs great and is a pleasure to drive. My only problem is what year do I call it? A '31 or a '32? I'm having a hard time getting a photo small enough to upload to this site but i have a picture of my '31 coupes rear fender and it has the narrow bottom where it meets the running board and another of this1932 Roadster and it is flat accross the bottom where it meets the running board. I also measured the width of both fenders at 5 places from running board to end of fender and they are all different. There is no way you can make '32 fenders fit this body unless it is a '32. I'm going to try and get Roy Brizo to take a look at this car and if anyone will have an answer it will be him.
Like they say, it ain't over until it's over!!

[JSeery]

If the guy is as talented as you say, that would explain his workmanship on your car.

[cas3]

seems to me that if henry had any bodys left, he would have just put them together with all the nos model a parts we have been buying for decades now, and not pay his guys to fiddle around making stuff fit that aint supposed to fit

[TJ]

[QUOTE=jmerson;1827581]

Originally Posted by Mart

Jmerson, sorry but the fire went out a while ago.



Mart, That's the trouble with you young whippper-snappers, you give up too easyly. I'm going to keep trying until i get to the bottom up this mystery. I've known this guy all of my adult life and i can't believe he is a phony. Look him up on Google and read some of his accomplishments and you will have a better understanding of my quest. I really don't care if people don't believe in this guy but if you had ever seen him and some of the work he did you would have a different feeling for this car. As i said before, i bought the car thinking it was something other than what it is but i wouldn't get rid of it now for any price. It's a beatiful car, looks great, runs great and is a pleasure to drive. My only problem is what year do I call it? A '31 or a '32? I'm having a hard time getting a photo small enough to upload to this site but i have a picture of my '31 coupes rear fender and it has the narrow bottom where it meets the running board and another of this1932 Roadster and it is flat accross the bottom where it meets the running board. I also measured the width of both fenders at 5 places from running board to end of fender and they are all different. There is no way you can make '32 fenders fit this body unless it is a '32. I'm going to try and get Roy Brizo to take a look at this car and if anyone will have an answer it will be him.
Like they say, it ain't over until it's over!!

Obviously you are going to believe what you want to believe. Somebody fed you a line of BS and you bought the car. If you like it then have fun with it. I suspect you may not like the answer that you get from Roy Brizio. You have been told by experts who have put in thousands of hours of research on Ford automobiles, especially '32's. They all have told you that Ford did not put this car together. Maybe you should check the Ford archives yourself and let us know what you find. You can start with the Benson Ford Research Center.

[Mart]

I have a 30A on 32 rails. If it helps at all it is registered here in the UK as a 32. Here more emphasis is put on the chassis than the body.

There must be people in your state that also have a 30/31 body on a 32 chassis. What did they do when registering?

Is the frame original? Does it have numbers? Do the numbers fit the 32 model year? Are they factory stamped numbers?

If repro you need to understand your state's rules or guidance for registering a vehicle. Other people in your state or country should be able to advise better than me on that one.

We will try and help you get your car through the registration process but you must work with us.

Mart.

[skidmarks]

Originally Posted by Mart

I have a 30A on 32 rails. If it helps at all it is registered here in the UK as a 32. Here more emphasis is put on the chassis than the body.

There must be people in your state that also have a 30/31 body on a 32 chassis. What did they do when registering?

Is the frame original? Does it have numbers? Do the numbers fit the 32 model year? Are they factory stamped numbers?

If repro you need to understand your state's rules or guidance for registering a vehicle. Other people in your state or country should be able to advise better than me on that one.

We will try and help you get your car through the registration process but you must work with us.

Mart.

I was at a auction in Pennsylvania a few years back and the guy had a 29 roadster body on a 32 frame. Had a 59 AB engine. When they tried to sell it, they rattled off its a 1947 ford model 29 roadster 32 frame blah blah blah
...which confused a bunch of people. They clarified it was titled as a 1947 ford because the guy used the engine numbers and the title from the donor car to get an assembled title.

It gets mentioned a lot on here when talking titles, every state is different.

[Ian1932]

Originally Posted by cas3

seems to me that if henry had any bodys left, he would have just put them together with all the nos model a parts we have been buying for decades now, and not pay his guys to fiddle around making stuff fit that aint supposed to fit

If Henry had anything left over he would probably shoveled right into the furnace...lol

[DavidG]

Just send your photos as an email attachment to yourself, file them, and the resulting photos will work just fine on this site.

[34pickup]

I see no mystery here at all. The car is what it is. A talented builder can make anything his imagination desires, its only metal. Go over to the HAMB and see what some guys are putting together.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by DavidG

Lots of leftover '31s sold and registered in 1932. Reminiscent of the period before the introduction of Model A in 1928, Ford dealers had nothing else to sell until early April, 1932 and even later for the smaller dealers. (At the March 30th public introduction less than half the dealers had actual vehicles to display and most had only display boards with photos to show to potential customers.)

Solid info, lot of things carried over through the yrs.

Is it a 32 without the v8? I would think a 31 with a flathead v8 would be all over forums. Never seen one.

Think putting a model a body on a 32 frame, the frame needs to narrow in the front of the frame or you need to add width to the body. But I have not done this.

These are 80 plus yr old cars. sometimes things change over the yrs. Not a capital crime. Well unless you put a sbc in it. hahaha

[blucar]

All of the preceding dialog about the '32 Ford roadster brings to mind a well documented situation with a '32 Plym conv coupe several years ago.
The '32 Plym conv cpe's are the '32 roadster of the Mopar world. The '32 Plym was the last of the 4 cyln vehicles in the Plym line, the engine was far superior to the Ford 4 cyln, the Plym engine was 196. CID with 65 HP, hydraulic brakes and a wheel base of 112".
Many years ago a '32 Plym PB conv cpe came up for auction at one of the big auctions, the car went for big bucks. Several weeks after the purchase, the new owner joined the Plymouth Owners Club, when he registered the car with the POC he was informed that the serial/body number was for a '32 sedan. The owner of the car took the POC to task about their claim that the car had sedan numbers, the owner then went back to the auction house, they claimed that the car had been varified by the previous owner (s). Research at the POC documented that the serial/body numbers were correct. The POC and Chrysler Historical has records of every DPCD vehicle made since 1928.
The rest of the story: During the 1970's a man wanted a '32 Plym conv cpe, but could not find one to his liking, he purchased a very nice 32 sedan, found a '32 conv body and cloned the sedan into a conv, that was perfect in every respect. The car was registered with the POC as a convertible coupe. The car was owned and shown by the creator for many years, then it was sold as a convertible.
The auction house returned the full purchase price to the new owner, they in turn resold the car as a '32 conv cpe.
So, is the '32 Plym a fake, or is it a coach built 32 Plym?
My brother has a '37 Ford 4dr that falls into the same catigory. He bought the car in the mid '70's, a very nice stock appearing car. He had owned the car for many years when he found out the serial number on the title did not match the numbers on the frame, it also had '39-41 hydraulic brakes.
The serial number issue did not come up until he moved the car to Idaho from California. To over come the brake issue my brother tells anyone that asks that the car has special order hydraulic brakes.


Moral to the story; You have to be careful how deep you go in DNA research, you might not like what comes up.

[tub1]

I was ready some old rod action magazines other day was a car featured in there 31a body modified to suit 32 chassis with 32 fenders rears were made from 2 sets of fenders ,it was a great looking car could even be same car , mind you this is a nice looking car in my eyes