The Ford Barn

Dennis D 1929 · 07-30-2018, 12:43 PM

Got a new Air Maze for my '29 Coupe, as the barn find came with no air cleaner. Wondering what to oil the screen with. Was thinking just to use 30wt. motor oil. Would that work OK ? Thanks in advance !

oldforder · 07-30-2018, 12:46 PM

Any oil is better than no oil, but I would think that the special foam filter oil would be the best, as it is really clingy and would stick to the mesh better. Just my opinion.

Bob-A · 07-30-2018, 12:55 PM

I use the K&N gauze filter oil on my Air-Maze wire filter.

Bob-A

Bob C · 07-30-2018, 12:56 PM

They didn't come with an air cleaner.

This is from Renners Corner.

"One last item is NEVER use an air cleaner of ANY type on any carb for the Model A !!!

ALL of the carbs released for the A had the float bowl vented externally.

Carbs that use an air cleaner are internally vented.

What happens when and air cleaner is installed it creates restriction, thats what trapping dirt does.

The engine doesn't now this and is still pulling huge volumes of air so what happens since it can't get it thru the air opening

is that it pulls it thru the float bowl vent, and supper speeds it thru the jets causing a super rich uncontrolled air to fuel mixture.

We can fix this problem if you must run a filter, its called pressure balancing.

We plug the stock vent and machine a path thru the carb relocating the vent to the choke plate area.

This way the engine can only get its air from one place.

Our roads today are way better than 80 years ago so I wouldn't worry you won't wear your engine out in your lifetime."

eagle · 07-30-2018, 01:04 PM

If it is the wire mesh type cleaner immerse it in any motor oil, then hang it up for a few hours to dry. Then install. Wash it out once or twice a year and repeat. The original style mesh has almost no restriction of air intake but when you wash it out you will be amazed at the amount of dirt you get.

160B · 07-30-2018, 01:50 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

BILL WILLIAMSON · 07-30-2018, 04:28 PM

Renners' Corners' advice is for the MASS of people who don't know HOW to fabricate a proper vent, for use with a slightly restrictive AIR FILTER!
Bill W.

Dennis D 1929 · 07-31-2018, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

They didn't come with an air cleaner.

This is from Renners Corner.

"One last item is NEVER use an air cleaner of ANY type on any carb for the Model A !!!

ALL of the carbs released for the A had the float bowl vented externally.

Carbs that use an air cleaner are internally vented.

What happens when and air cleaner is installed it creates restriction, thats what trapping dirt does.

The engine doesn't now this and is still pulling huge volumes of air so what happens since it can't get it thru the air opening

is that it pulls it thru the float bowl vent, and supper speeds it thru the jets causing a super rich uncontrolled air to fuel mixture.

We can fix this problem if you must run a filter, its called pressure balancing.

We plug the stock vent and machine a path thru the carb relocating the vent to the choke plate area.

This way the engine can only get its air from one place.

Our roads today are way better than 80 years ago so I wouldn't worry you won't wear your engine out in your lifetime."

Thanks Bob C , makes sense, however do you think just running a wire mesh Airmaze would cause these restriction problems ? Other posts say No. I live on dirt roads and plan to go through farm fields on occasion.

eagle · 07-31-2018, 08:39 AM

I also live on dirt/gravel roads. I use an AirMaze filter and it collects a LOT of dirt that would otherwise be in the engine. I'm sure plenty gets through as it is. It makes absolutely no noticable difference in engine performance at all. When idling I can hold it on the carb or off, no change in RPM. Obviously some DO notice a change on their A, not mine. At cruising speed I run my GAV at 1/4 open, with or w/o the filter. Any more closed and I get a lean popping through the carb on deceleration.

160B · 07-31-2018, 09:51 AM

FWIW

I agree that if you put an air filter on a vehicle that is not rated at the CFM per minute of air flow that the engine requires to run at performance RPM you will have an engine that runs rich and fouls plugs.

I ran my own calculations 12 years ago using the formulas at the K&N web site (no longer available), and 200.5 cubic engine running at 2100 rpm and selected a K&N E-3050.

To date I have over 30,000 miles using a K&N E-3050 and have never had any fouling of my spark plugs.

Here is a link to the same calculation on Model -A.org.

The information below the link in italics is information from Model-a.org.

http://www.model-a.org/filtering_air_into_carb.html

Carburetors, with their air input totally unfiltered, suck in all kinds of stuff that can do damage to your engine. Fine silica dust and powdered rock are the most common materials that are pulled in and cause engine wear.

The Air Maze, metal gauze unit (sold by most Model A Ford part distributors; shown on the left) prevents large particles from entering, but does nothing to filter out the small stuff that most commonly causes the damage.

The next logical step is to try paper element cartridges. However, you have to be careful not to restrict the air to fuel balance of the carburetor. The level of air resistances varies depending on the size, surface area, and the physical attributes of the filtering material.

An undersized filter restricts airflow into the carburetor and lowers the pressure at the choke. These consequences make the fuel-air ratio higher (too much gasoline for the airflow reduction) and also lower the velocity of fuel flow through the Venturi (reducing engine responsiveness to throttling). The result is carbon deposits in your engine from the rich mixture.

One needs to consider the air volume needs for a nominal 200 cubic inch engine at 2,800 RPM and the carburetors air intake area of 1.767 square inches. You also have to consider how much to oversize the filter element to allow for clogging up to say 30%. With some rough calculations, you'll find that you need a large filter.

I've read material from multiple sources, which say: "automotive engineers regularly size air filter surface areas at one-half an engines cubic inch capacity", which is 100 square inches for the nominal Model A engine.

I have found paper filters clog up quickly, restrict flow, and retain gasoline from drippy carburetors for a long time. So, I prefer K&N washable, oilable and reusable filters. Using published K&N formulas, I calculated the filter required for a typical Model A engine. If your engine has been modified to increase the cubic inches, you will want to adapt my following calculations.

First, I calculated the Effective Filtering Area for the physical attributes of K&N filter materials:

200 Cubic inches displacement times 2,800 RPM divided by 20,839, which is the factor for K&N Filter Attributes = 26.9 square inch Effective Filtering Area.

Then, I calculated the minimum length for a filter to fit in an Air Maze housing:

26.9 square inch Effective Filtering Area divided by (3 & 1/2 inch Air Maze diameter times 3.14 Pi) plus .75 inches to compensate for the rubber seals on each end of the element = 3.2 inches minimum filter length.

This is significantly longer than the very small air filters commonly seen on many Model A Fords.

K&N offers several filters that can be used with the Air Maze housing.

Part # E-3050 is 3.5 inches long.

Part # E-9257 is 5.5 inches long.

Part # E-2040 is 6.625 inches long.

To provide some margin for the filter getting dirty, before you get around to cleaning it, I would recommend the 5.5 inch long length. I know it is an over kill, but I am currently using the 6.625 inch long one to allow for driving on dusty gravel roads and to extend my time between filter cleaning / re-oiling cycles.

redmodelt · 07-31-2018, 10:34 AM

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/high-volume-air-maze
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/m...yle-air-filter
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/m...yle-air-filter
Not a recommendation just showing what is out there.

07-30-2018, 12:43 PM	#1
Dennis D 1929 Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 55	Air Maze Oil Got a new Air Maze for my '29 Coupe, as the barn find came with no air cleaner. Wondering what to oil the screen with. Was thinking just to use 30wt. motor oil. Would that work OK ? Thanks in advance !

07-30-2018, 12:46 PM	#2
oldforder Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Columbus Nebraska Posts: 171	Re: Air Maze Oil Any oil is better than no oil, but I would think that the special foam filter oil would be the best, as it is really clingy and would stick to the mesh better. Just my opinion.

07-30-2018, 12:55 PM	#3
Bob-A Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central FL, USA Posts: 1,137	Re: Air Maze Oil I use the *K&N* gauze filter oil on my Air-Maze wire filter. Bob-A

07-30-2018, 12:56 PM	#4
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,747	Re: Air Maze Oil They didn't come with an air cleaner. This is from Renners Corner. "One last item is NEVER use an air cleaner of ANY type on any carb for the Model A !!! ALL of the carbs released for the A had the float bowl vented externally. Carbs that use an air cleaner are internally vented. What happens when and air cleaner is installed it creates restriction, thats what trapping dirt does. The engine doesn't now this and is still pulling huge volumes of air so what happens since it can't get it thru the air opening is that it pulls it thru the float bowl vent, and supper speeds it thru the jets causing a super rich uncontrolled air to fuel mixture. We can fix this problem if you must run a filter, its called pressure balancing. We plug the stock vent and machine a path thru the carb relocating the vent to the choke plate area. This way the engine can only get its air from one place. Our roads today are way better than 80 years ago so I wouldn't worry you won't wear your engine out in your lifetime." Last edited by Bob C; 07-30-2018 at 01:03 PM.

07-30-2018, 01:04 PM	#5
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: Air Maze Oil If it is the wire mesh type cleaner immerse it in any motor oil, then hang it up for a few hours to dry. Then install. Wash it out once or twice a year and repeat. The original style mesh has almost no restriction of air intake but when you wash it out you will be amazed at the amount of dirt you get. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

07-30-2018, 01:50 PM	#6
160B Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 1,498	Re: Air Maze Oil Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) This issue has been discussed in numerous posts, read the below and make your own decision https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221691 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216058 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211210 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209923 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=205402 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142421 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=142838 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119231 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119203 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108962 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95961 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=239089&page=2 https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221751 __________________ 1931 160B & 1931 68B If you don't have time to do it right the 1st time, how do you have time to do it the 2nd time?

07-30-2018, 04:28 PM	#7
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Air Maze Oil Renners' Corners' advice is for the MASS of people who don't know HOW to fabricate a proper vent, for use with a slightly restrictive AIR FILTER! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

07-31-2018, 08:39 AM	#9
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: Air Maze Oil I also live on dirt/gravel roads. I use an AirMaze filter and it collects a LOT of dirt that would otherwise be in the engine. I'm sure plenty gets through as it is. It makes absolutely no noticable difference in engine performance at all. When idling I can hold it on the carb or off, no change in RPM. Obviously some DO notice a change on their A, not mine. At cruising speed I run my GAV at 1/4 open, with or w/o the filter. Any more closed and I get a lean popping through the carb on deceleration. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

07-31-2018, 09:51 AM	#10
160B Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 1,498	Re: Air Maze Oil FWIW I agree that if you put an air filter on a vehicle that is not rated at the CFM per minute of air flow that the engine requires to run at performance RPM you will have an engine that runs rich and fouls plugs. I ran my own calculations 12 years ago using the formulas at the K&N web site (no longer available), and 200.5 cubic engine running at 2100 rpm and selected a K&N E-3050. To date I have over 30,000 miles using a K&N E-3050 and have never had any fouling of my spark plugs. Here is a link to the same calculation on Model -A.org. The information below the link in italics is information from Model-a.org. http://www.model-a.org/filtering_air_into_carb.html Carburetors, with their air input totally unfiltered, suck in all kinds of stuff that can do damage to your engine. Fine silica dust and powdered rock are the most common materials that are pulled in and cause engine wear. The Air Maze, metal gauze unit (sold by most Model A Ford part distributors; shown on the left) prevents large particles from entering, but does nothing to filter out the small stuff that most commonly causes the damage. The next logical step is to try paper element cartridges. However, you have to be careful not to restrict the air to fuel balance of the carburetor. The level of air resistances varies depending on the size, surface area, and the physical attributes of the filtering material. An undersized filter restricts airflow into the carburetor and lowers the pressure at the choke. These consequences make the fuel-air ratio higher (too much gasoline for the airflow reduction) and also lower the velocity of fuel flow through the Venturi (reducing engine responsiveness to throttling). The result is carbon deposits in your engine from the rich mixture. One needs to consider the air volume needs for a nominal 200 cubic inch engine at 2,800 RPM and the carburetors air intake area of 1.767 square inches. You also have to consider how much to oversize the filter element to allow for clogging up to say 30%. With some rough calculations, you'll find that you need a large filter. I've read material from multiple sources, which say: "automotive engineers regularly size air filter surface areas at one-half an engines cubic inch capacity", which is 100 square inches for the nominal Model A engine. I have found paper filters clog up quickly, restrict flow, and retain gasoline from drippy carburetors for a long time. So, I prefer K&N washable, oilable and reusable filters. Using published K&N formulas, I calculated the filter required for a typical Model A engine. If your engine has been modified to increase the cubic inches, you will want to adapt my following calculations. First, I calculated the Effective Filtering Area for the physical attributes of K&N filter materials: 200 Cubic inches displacement times 2,800 RPM divided by 20,839, which is the factor for K&N Filter Attributes = 26.9 square inch Effective Filtering Area. Then, I calculated the minimum length for a filter to fit in an Air Maze housing: 26.9 square inch Effective Filtering Area divided by (3 & 1/2 inch Air Maze diameter times 3.14 Pi) plus .75 inches to compensate for the rubber seals on each end of the element = 3.2 inches minimum filter length. This is significantly longer than the very small air filters commonly seen on many Model A Fords. K&N offers several filters that can be used with the Air Maze housing. Part # E-3050 is 3.5 inches long. Part # E-9257 is 5.5 inches long. Part # E-2040 is 6.625 inches long. To provide some margin for the filter getting dirty, before you get around to cleaning it, I would recommend the 5.5 inch long length. I know it is an over kill, but I am currently using the 6.625 inch long one to allow for driving on dusty gravel roads and to extend my time between filter cleaning / re-oiling cycles. __________________ 1931 160B & 1931 68B If you don't have time to do it right the 1st time, how do you have time to do it the 2nd time?

07-31-2018, 10:34 AM	#11
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Air Maze Oil https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/high-volume-air-maze https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/m...yle-air-filter https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/m...yle-air-filter Not a recommendation just showing what is out there. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!