Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one

[H. L. Chauvin]

Appears it is always a good idea to kindly remind others from time to time about Model A safety concerns and Model A safety considerations that are available.

Then, each one of us can think, try to evaluate, and try to decide what is most important with the life we are enjoying today.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Lona

Plenty of threads here on installing seat belts. IMHO, every owner should have them installed. And, if you are going to do it, take the next step and install retractable shoulder belts at the same time. Seat belts alone might save you but in a head-on, you are most certainly going to leave some teeth and face parts on the steering wheel or windshield.

Glen

At least half of the Model As here are open cars. You can't put a shoulder belt in those.....Next idea?
Well, here it is. In all of my As, I have a lap belt for each passenger and either a lap/sash belt or racing style harness for the driver. I'm usually the driver and I don't want to be impaled on the steering column. Wearing them makes me feel much safer but I know I am still not as safe as in a modern car.
I think equally important for safety is your safe driving ability/techniques

[Cornishman]

Originally Posted by Chippy Minton

I'm sure many other people died on the same day despite wearing seat belts and even if they are fitted to a Model A it will never be like a modern car. Without crumple zones, collapsible steering columns and airbags all round but with 90 year old suspension and brakes an A needs driving under control all the time. I never drive my A on roads where it will be vulnerable to fast traffic, trucks and traffic density and anyway it is much more at home on the back roads. Yes, accidents may still happen but that is true when I use those same roads on my motorcycle, bicycle or even on foot.

I go along with this. As I read it a lot of you are getting a false sense of security because you have fitted seat belts to your car. Modern cars have taken huge steps forward in crash safety and the seat belt is the tip of the iceberg. Fair enough if you have a seat belt in your A it might prevent you getting thrown out of the car but it will not stop you smashing your head on the windshield, or crushing your chest on the steering column. Nor will it protect your organs from the g forces created by the impact. Yo cannot build secondary safety into a Model A Ford so therefore you need to stay on top of the primary safety issues. In my case that's not using it in unsuitable conditions on unsuitable roads at inappropriate speeds. I keep to where the traffic will be light, the roads gentle and I can travel at my own speed in my own space. I drive carefully because I have no seat belt, air bag or crumple zones, I approach braking situations carefully because I know that I have a mechanical braking system that is connected to the road through narrow, low grip tyres. I go around bends slowly because of those same tyres and a suspension system that has more in common with a horse drawn cart than the cars that I'm used to. If I want to go far and fast I use another vehicle; my motorcycle, turbocharged Golf GTi and Porsche have most of the safety items that the 21st Century has provided and at times I rely on those items to keep me safe. The Model A is something else and I, yes me, actually feel safer because I do not have a seat belt to make me feel more protected than I know I would be if I actually had to rely on it in earnest.

[ronn]

Here is how I figure it, could he, due to the severity of the crash, have died with one, yes. But he absolutely died without one.

and at least didnt end up comatose or paralyzed for life............. because of one.

as Chippy mentions- no requirement to have a seat belt when riding a motorcycle.
we all have choices. I dont want them in my antiques-end of story!

[mhsprecher]

Here is a post from the V8 Forum. The driver had a seat belt on and was not injured.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213014

[Ted Duke]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

MANY years back, we used seat belts, when they were available in the War Surplus Stores!
I still have U.S. Army silverwear.
Bill W.

Yeah Bill,

But YOU are very lucky. Right?

Ted

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, but I saw a Model A with ONE continuous lap belt, from one door to the other. His idea was that it "might'" keep them from falling out of the car????
Bill W.

[Cornishman]

I see seat belts as being like the helmets that soldiers wear, they boost confidence and give the wearer a feeling of invulnerability. It is a well documented fact that after the British Army issued hard hats to all their soldiers fighting in the trenches fatalities from sniper fire increased dramatically. Before they realised that a bare head or woolly hat was no protection against a bullet but with a bit of tin on their head they believed that all would be fine.
If you want to fit a seatbelt to a Model A fine, it's a great idea, but, please, continue to drive as though you are driving without. Belt and braces.

[René W]

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

Here is a post from the V8 Forum. The driver had a seat belt on and was not injured.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213014

I don.t know if i would be happy wearing a seatbelt in a crash like this,
If you are t-boned at the drivers side and you are in a seatbelt where do you go?.........nowhere,you'l get the full impact from the crashed door and sidewall.
Such a '40 Ford is more solid as a model A,when you are t-boned in a model A you can only do 1 thing...........pray........
I don't have seatbelts in my tudor and i don't want them too,i know it is not very smart but i never wear seatbelts(only if the cops are looking to avoid a ticket) in my modern car,i hate those things and take the risk..........

[5window]

My condolences to the family.

The crash occurred at 12:15AM? That might imply less than ideal driving conditions. Certainly Model A headlights are a bit less bright than modern day halogens or LEDs

Here is an excellent source for seat belts-classic styles, DOT approved, reasonable cost. Never re-use belts from a wrecking yard. http://www.andoauto.com/

[pgerhardt]

I wear my seat belt for added comfort and to help stop fuel leaks. What!? Model A seats have no side bolsters, and so it is easy to slide around a lot. The belt keeps me planted in the seat. Without it you use your grip on the steering wheel to stop sliding sideways in a turn. This applies lateral force (multiple by the lever effect of the length of the steering column drop) to the attachment point on the bottom of the fuel tank. This can lead to leaks.

[Del in NE Ohio]

If you have been around A's for anytime, you will likely agree that it doesn't take a catastrophic event for a door to open inadvertently. Especially open cars. I'll take my chances staying in the vehicle. We all know going in that we are not surrounded by the safety of modern vehicles, but we also know that we are surrounded by distracted drivers. Pay attention to your environment, traffic, be aware of distractions. I drive my A's to escape the madness. That usually means traveling by backroads, two-lanes whenever possible. My seat belts make me more secure than not. If I am confronted by a catastrophic collision, one that dislodges steering gear, etc. than my time has come, seat belt or no and I have accepted that risk by choosing to drive this antique.
RIP Mr.Young.

[Licensed to kill]

Not a fan of belts in a model A. While i certainly understand the dangers of being thrown out in an accident (which is WAY more likely in an A than a modern car), I also understand that being strapped in with the fuel tank virtually in your lap has it's inherent risks well in a accident. I don't like either consideration. As someone else mentioned, the bigger risk, IMO is being thrown out just by the door coming open in a curve (for the passenger) and for this, and this only, I would consider belts.

[Lona]

Synchro909,

Yes, you can fairly easily install three point retractable seat belts in an open car. I installed them in our roadster and they work well. For anybody interested, do a forum search or google "put 3point retractable seat belts in a roadster" or PM me.

Glen

[Ted Duke]

IMHO If you don't want seat belts, don't install them. If you don't want to wear seat belts don't wear them.

If you don't know know what to do, just read the local newspaper for reports of accidents and note the number of people thrown from their vehicles and killed (and that is in modern cars).

Several local young people died within the last year, "too cool to wear a seatbelt?" cold now, dead cold!

[AL in NY]

I'm going to put 3 point shoulder belts/seat belts in my 30 CCPU this spring. I will be replacing the wood brace across the back of the cab with a machined steel one the same size. I'll put a 1x2 steel pillar in each corner and attach it the new steel brace. That will be the upper attachment point for the shoulder belt. The height of the pillar will be 29 inches above the seat cushion, same as my S10 Blazer. I figure no sense in going half way.

[Chippy Minton]

A lot of you must have very fast As with fantastic grip. All this talk about being thrown from the car if a door flies open! You must be pulling G forces that I can only dream about.

[AL in NY]

Somebody pulls out in front of you and you hit them at 45 MPH, I dare say there are multiple G forces going to put a hurting on you!!!!!!!!!!!

[CarlG]

AL,
Be sure to take plenty of pictures. Your plan is exactly what I will want to do for my Pickup.

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Somebody pulls out in front of you and you hit them at 45 MPH, I dare say there are multiple G forces going to put a hurting on you!!!!!!!!!!!

And when that happens, as pointed out above, your seat belt is not going to offer you anything like the level of protection that many of the posters imagine it will. Is there any crash test data to show exactly what will happen to the driver and passenger in a frontal crash at any speed?