so this just happened....

[Beater]

my happy little speedster isn't happy, and isn't speedstering very good at the moment. kids managed to blow apart the transmition. and I meen blow apart the transmition gears on the ground, bottom of the case laying on the ground. so another winter project. got another trans from a friend and it looks ok under first inspection. my question is, what is there to do, what should I be doing to modernize it up like better seals and stuff before I put the next one in? if anything.

[michael a]

Originally Posted by Beater

my happy little speedster isn't happy, and isn't speedstering very good at the moment. kids managed to blow apart the transmition. and I meen blow apart the transmition gears on the ground, bottom of the case laying on the ground. so another winter project. got another trans from a friend and it looks ok under first inspection. my question is, what is there to do, what should I be doing to modernize it up like better seals and stuff before I put the next one in? if anything.

Make kids help you fix it

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[GRutter]

Just put it together and enjoy. Wouldn't worry so much about 'modernizing' it.
Check idler gears, bearings. Check wear on gear shift ball-end so that it properly fits the forks. While it's apart check the universal. If it's an original riveted style I'd replace it. Good opportunity to inspect / replace clutch throwout bearing.

[Synchro909]

Vendors have a device that bolts onto the front of the coghouse to stop the notorious oil leak (or at least slow it). I think the jigger is made by Mitchell and is an easy fit. You might consider putting that on but otherwise, I'd go with what has already been said. You guys over there, should be able to get a decent gearbox easily enough.

[Beater]

yea this is what I was thinking about modern fixes to stop some of the leaks. ohhhh yea he gona help fix it. part of the program

[burner31]

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We want to hear the story of "How the kids blew up a transmission".

[updraught]

With a lack of weight on the rear wheels, and being driven on dirt? the lack of grip on those tyres mean its hard to pull the skin off a rice custard.

Plenty of A's have been driven hard by kids without the guts dropping out of the gearbox. I'd look for other causes.

[xmarine]

just finished my tranny todayMaybe put it in tommorrow

[Beater]

they were on hard packed dirt gravel road I drove it 15 min before they did with no problems. I think from the looks of it he dumped the clutch and boom. look for other causes have no idea what would cause that except kids being kids.

[whirnot]

If I were in your shoes, as well as checking the Gears bearings etc, I would install the transmission shaft seal kit at the rear and the Mitchell real deal oil seal at the front. This keeps the shafts and shifter from leaking front and rear. I imagine most dealers have both, I know Berts does. If you have to take the transmission apart, install shafts that have O rings, not that expensive.

[Y-Blockhead]

I used these Shift Rail Plugs from Mike's http://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A7202.html Worked good and a whole lot cheaper than the Mitchell piece http://www.mikes-afordable.com/product/A7112S.html

Needs to be installed while the trans/bell housing is out tho compared to the Mitchell seal which can be installed while trans is in the car.

[Beater]

yes I was thinking about the shaft seals will do that I think hopefully this one doesn't have to come apart. I pulled the tower and had a look, no teeth missing or anything. had clean oil in it and gears were shinny turned nice n smooth by hand so think its gona be fine

[Bill G]

Trannies in the model A are harder to get to than they are to work on.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Beater

they were on hard packed dirt gravel road I drove it 15 min before they did with no problems. I think from the looks of it he dumped the clutch and boom. look for other causes have no idea what would cause that except kids being kids.

I think that if this is written off as simply kids being kids with no consequences, they will not learn that actions have consequences. They're your kids to deal with as you see fit but if they were mine, helping to fix it would be the minimum. By help, I include the $ involved. I'd hit 'em where it hurts! Bet they won't destroy a gearbox ever again!

[updraught]

Originally Posted by Beater

they were on hard packed dirt gravel road I drove it 15 min before they did with no problems. I think from the looks of it he dumped the clutch and boom. look for other causes have no idea what would cause that except kids being kids.

Check for seized cluster bearings, bits broken off gears that have jammed in the other gears, shift leaver ball worn that caused odd shifting.

Big forces involved there to cause that.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...3880&showall=1

I would say a broken diff is more likely from dumping the clutch.

[Osage Orange]

My attempt to hole-shot a corvair at a traffic light cost me the cluster and first gears, so yeah, dumping the clutch can and did damage the tranny, but it didn't break the case in my '29 coupe. Make sure you put in new pins in the forks.

[Beater]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I think that if this is written off as simply kids being kids with no consequences, they will not learn that actions have consequences. They're your kids to deal with as you see fit but if they were mine, helping to fix it would be the minimum. By help, I include the $ involved. I'd hit 'em where it hurts! Bet they won't destroy a gearbox ever again!

who said there wasn't any consequences?


rear axle is fine,like I said I was driving it myself 15 min before and everything was fine.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Beater

who said there wasn't any consequences? No one!


rear axle is fine,like I said I was driving it myself 15 min before and everything was fine.

You might have dodged a bullet on the rear end. I think I'd rather have to replace the gearbox than the diff.

[Tom Wesenberg]

It would be interesting to find out what actions were done to cause the damage.
Was it popping the clutch, poor shifting, or........?

[junk yard kid]

I blew one up and spit everything loose out the bottom. It was clutch dropping power slides in grass. Great fun. It was acting weird and i was reving the motor when something jambed and blew the bottom of case out.

I would think id be happy my kid blew up the tranny. Id be even happier if they just helped fix it and where interested in the broken stuff. Get those tore up gears and build the kid a trophy. Most kids want nothing to do with this stuff. Course i dont mean you should be the pit crew forever. Kid might not of been at fault, it is old stuff.

[Beater]

oh I'm sure he dropped the clutch, and boom. much happier it was the gearbox rather than the axle.

[Dennis D 1929]

I read all the responses because I too have to rebuild my tranny. Reading all the parts that need to be replaced scares the bejeezers out of me. Would it be cheaper just to buy a rebuilt tranny ? Where is the best place to shop ?

[Benson]

Maybe they were pulling hard in second gear and went over a railroad crossing track under acceleration ... the rear wheels were spinning fast and free when the tires hit the dry pavement on the other side of the track.

Or spinning wheels on dirt when wheels hit the dry pavement.

[SSsssteamer]

When I was a kid over 55 years ago, while on cement, I did a quick burn out in reverse gear and I got instant wheel hop followed by blowing the cluster gear out the bottom of my transmission. After I did that transmission replacement, I have never tried a burn out in reverse or in first gear with a model A Ford again. A lesson quickly learned and retained. On the replacement transmission, inspect the gear teeth for pits and for worn out teeth also. The pitted teeth can break off across the pits and the well worn teeth will howl. Replace the faulty gears. Its best to not mix up the gears from different transmissions into another transmission. You can do it and make it work, but the gears that have been driven together for years, they lap their selves in to each other and unless they are worn out, they run quieter than mixed up gears from different transmissions.

[1crosscut]

Originally Posted by Beater

yes I was thinking about the shaft seals will do that I think hopefully this one doesn't have to come apart. I pulled the tower and had a look, no teeth missing or anything. had clean oil in it and gears were shinny turned nice n smooth by hand so think its gona be fine

I would dissemble it and make sure it fine before installing it.

[Simonpie]

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I remember a few stories on here about a tranny with worn forks or shifter ball being able to go into 2 gears at once, locking things solid. If this happened under way, or under power, it could blow the gears out the bottom. I'm just saying, have an honest talk with the kids before blaming. It might have been something else, and something hard to determine after the fact.


As I often say, "If the gas pedal wasn't supposed to go to the floor, they wouldn't have made it possible to do that."

[old31]

HUH, what.

I am still trying to wrap my head around "pull the skin off a rice custard". Any photos or tech manuals on this?

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by old31

HUH, what.

I am still trying to wrap my head around "pull the skin off a rice custard". Any photos or tech manuals on this?

No need for a book! Just give me a pan of rice custard and a spoon, and I will show you. It may take repeated applications of the spoon, however!

[Jim Brierley]

Save your turkey gravy from yesterday and use it in the trans, it'll quite it down quite a bit! :-)

[Pilotdave]

I'm with Junk Yard Kid. I'd give nearly anything if either of my kids were interested in anything automotive.......many years later I believe that this might have turned out differently had I involved them in fun mechanical exploits when they were young.

Not much differently than others have said....I would make checking out and rebuilding the new(er) tranny into a fun project and an educational experience for them.....along with the removal and reinstall process.

Dave

[Beater]

well I got lucky and got a good trans, or appears to be good anyways, from a friend. all clean and nice inside. I'm not sure if I'm going to re bearing it or not. might just put it in as is

[Beater]

well I broke down and diss assembled the trans, and re bearinged it. decided for the cost of a few bearing id just do it gears all good everything was tight and clean no pits. I'm stalled out a bit, replaced the clutch, and went to put the new one in had all the preasure plate bolts in, alighnment tool in, and started snugging up the bolts. second time around I snapped off two of the bolts, so decided that its time for new ones of those aswell. so waiting for those.

[daveymc29]

Spare the rod and spile the chile! They probably feel bad already so a good whuppin added on? Wow!

[Beater]

Originally Posted by daveymc29

Spare the rod and spile the chile! They probably feel bad already so a good whuppin added on? Wow!

no, no whuppins sorry

[Corley]

Originally Posted by Dennis D 1929

I read all the responses because I too have to rebuild my tranny. Reading all the parts that need to be replaced scares the bejeezers out of me. Would it be cheaper just to buy a rebuilt tranny ? Where is the best place to shop ?

Dennis, Really, don't be afraid of tearing into a model A trans, they are about as simple and fool proof as any mechanical device can be. Yeah, it's going to be a bit greasy and dirty, and you will need to pull the rear end or engine to get to it, but all that is simple stuff, even for a novice. If you are in an A club and need a little assistance, there are probably several fellow members who'd be happy to help, or at least look over your shoulder. This is an excellent place to get your feet wet if you don't have much mechanical background, and definitely, do not be scared of it.

[Beater]

I was the same, nervious to pull trans apart. Ive built model kits when i was a kid that were more complicated. Nothing to it

[garyjohn]

I did my trany, put in sealed bearings front and back, shaft seals and the one in the bell housing. NO LEAKS

[Beater]

I put sealed bearings in this one to I did however pull the inside seales out left the external ones

[jhowes]

I have good instructions on rebuilding the rear end but are there any such step by step instructions on the transmission? Jack

[Beater]

there is a very good one on youtube. by john karal


https://youtu.be/D7PwUj2nIc8

[wensum]

Local hot rod experts tell me that the Model A gearbox won't stand up to improved motors and drag-strip like starts and consequently I have an F150 box in my speedster.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by wensum

Local hot rod experts tell me that the Model A gearbox won't stand up to improved motors and drag-strip like starts and consequently I have an F150 box in my speedster.

The standard MOdel A cog house is not bad for toughness. I have dragged a camper weighing about a metric tonne (2,200 lbs) around for a total of about 35,000 miles. No problems from that componenet.

[updraught]

Straight cut gears don't need a strong case. Saves weight. It's a racing box.

[Beater]

Originally Posted by updraught

straight cut gears don't need a strong case. Saves weight. It's a racing box.

really. My real world experiance would say otherwise

[Beater]

well today its almost all back together. took the opportunity to replace the oil pan gasgets and main seals aswell. had it up to operating temp today and no pan leaks so far so yahoo on that one/


I got as far as to having just rebuilt the brake cross shaft ends welded them up and filed them to fit the new bushings just nice. put it all together and put cross shaft inplace. went to put the rod from brake pedal to cross shaft and I couldn't get the cross shaft to move. had me puzzeled for a bit. the torque tube was sitting on the cross shaft. it appears that after I took the 1/4" of slop out of it, it now goes up farther and runs into the tube. dam why is that I said to myself. sat down and had a beer and thought. after the beer was done I had it figured. it has a float a motor kit on it from forever ago and the rubbers have crushed allowing the back end to droop. anyways, got a jack under it and got them apart, need some new rubbers n spacers. so now my question is to the experts here, should my fan spaceing be even top and bottom at the rad when the blades are up n down? or should the engine be tilted a bit? I'm going to have to make a spacer to go in there, and wana get the angle right

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by Beater

well today its almost all back together. took the opportunity to replace the oil pan gasgets and main seals aswell. had it up to operating temp today and no pan leaks so far so yahoo on that one/


I got as far as to having just rebuilt the brake cross shaft ends welded them up and filed them to fit the new bushings just nice. put it all together and put cross shaft inplace. went to put the rod from brake pedal to cross shaft and I couldn't get the cross shaft to move. had me puzzeled for a bit. the torque tube was sitting on the cross shaft. it appears that after I took the 1/4" of slop out of it, it now goes up farther and runs into the tube. dam why is that I said to myself. sat down and had a beer and thought. after the beer was done I had it figured. it has a float a motor kit on it from forever ago and the rubbers have crushed allowing the back end to droop. anyways, got a jack under it and got them apart, need some new rubbers n spacers. so now my question is to the experts here, should my fan spaceing be even top and bottom at the rad when the blades are up n down? or should the engine be tilted a bit? I'm going to have to make a spacer to go in there, and wana get the angle right

For that, I suggest having a look under another Model A and noting the distance between the cross shaft and the torque tube. Set yours to the same and you should be OK.

[Beater]

Id like to do that but nobody even remotely close to me has one

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Beater

Id like to do that but nobody even remotely close to me has one

Maybe someone here can measure theirs and post the result.

[Beater]

that would be great

[Synchro909]

I won't get a chance till tomorrow to do that so unless someone else does it beforehand, I'll crawl under and do it then. Remember, we are 18 hours ahead of your west coast.

[Beater]

well I made up some spacers and guessed yesterday. had to add about 1/2" to get it lifted up enough to have about a 2" clearance under the trans. my fan is not square with the rad yet but getting closser

[Beater]

well today was the day. decided that the spacer was good enough and I have about 1-2" of clearance between cross shaft and trans. it must have been bad bad before and I never noticed it because today when I went to put all the brake rods back on nothing would fit. had to kinda start from scratch and set everything up. did that then while it was on hoist adjusted up the brake cams to so everything was good back to spec.
so out the door for a lil spin and the clutch / gearbox workin good feels great. only one prob, first time I touched the brakes wow I have BRAKES now. almost went through the windshield and skidded the tires. after I got back to the shop and sat there infront of it looking for oil leaks, which by the way I don't have anymore, I had a look at cross shaft. seems before I lifted the motor when I stepped on brake pedal it was trying to lift the rear of the trans. now that's gone she sure is a different animal. anyways I'm happy all good. next on the list, change out the water pump for a leakless.

[Beater]

new water pump today. next, rear wheel bearings and brake inspection

[Gene F]

About 20 years ago, a man died and he had a lot of As and parts. I bought a trans for was ether $15 or $20. About 10 or 12 years ago I decided to change my 28 over to single plate clutch. Took the tower off looked inside, dumped the oil, and out in fresh 660W. Just a very little wear on the edge of that one gear from the 2-3 shift, and I mean little. Put t in, and that was probably 12 years ago. It works great. Henry made some pretty good stuff. I did add that little cap to keep the reverse idler gear shaft from seeping oil.

[Beater]

today we rear bearing repack and brake check over. never had the hubs off it before and I have something dragging on the drivers side, so opened her up to see whats what. bearings were ok but wasn't much grease in there so did a repack. brake and Ebrake shoes look prity good. hubs and drums ok I did find why there was something dragging . ill see who can catch it