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Old 11-15-2018, 01:42 PM   #1
tubman
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Default Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

As some of you may know, I am making reproduction brass "Trash Can" condensers for use in older aftermarket points ignition systems. Up to now, these have been rated at .22 microfarads, because that is the the highest capacitance unit available that will meet our specifications and still fit into our traditional case. My partner and I have recently found a .33 microfarad film capacitor that seems to be suitable and will fit in our case. The .33 microfarad units are usually a better match for the older Ford distributors (helmets, crabs, and rabbit ears). Up to now I have been doing most of the long term testing myself, but I don't have access to an early Ford (I'm a shoebox guy).

Therefore, I am looking for someone who can do a long term test of these with me. I would prefer someone running a suitable vehicle on a regular basis. It doesn't matter if the engine has been modified, as long as it uses an early style distributor. As a matter of fact, I would prefer a slightly modified engine (heads, carbs, etc.) I would like someone that would drive their vehicle on a daily basis, perhaps in marginal weather, and put a substantial amount of mileage on it. I would send you a condenser, clamp, and lead, and would want the unit returned for analysis after 10,000 miles or one year (whichever comes LAST). I would then like it returned so we can do analysis after the fact. Of course, there is always the chance that the unit might fail before the specified time or mileage, but that would be valuable information as well. Oh yeah, one other thing. It would be preferable that a new set of points be installed at the same time as the condenser and then returned with the condenser at the end of the test. This will allow us to determine if the capacitance is correct, and if not, which way it is off.

Any takers?
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:13 PM   #2
Lawrie
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

I will put my hand up, our 33 does lots of miles,in all weather , mostly hot weather,
drive it all over Australia towing our caravan, used every week,
nearly stock 99a engine .
6v with 3 bolt helmet dist.
Lawrie
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:11 PM   #3
leon bee
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Denny: Lawrie gets my vote, he needs good parts for passing all those road trains.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
As some of you may know, I am making reproduction brass "Trash Can" condensers for use in older aftermarket points ignition systems. Up to now, these have been rated at .22 microfarads, because that is the the highest capacitance unit available that will meet our specifications and still fit into our traditional case. My partner and I have recently found a .33 microfarad film capacitor that seems to be suitable and will fit in our case. The .33 microfarad units are usually a better match for the older Ford distributors (helmets, crabs, and rabbit ears). Up to now I have been doing most of the long term testing myself, but I don't have access to an early Ford (I'm a shoebox guy).

Therefore, I am looking for someone who can do a long term test of these with me. I would prefer someone running a suitable vehicle on a regular basis. It doesn't matter if the engine has been modified, as long as it uses an early style distributor. As a matter of fact, I would prefer a slightly modified engine (heads, carbs, etc.) I would like someone that would drive their vehicle on a daily basis, perhaps in marginal weather, and put a substantial amount of mileage on it. I would send you a condenser, clamp, and lead, and would want the unit returned for analysis after 10,000 miles or one year (whichever comes LAST). I would then like it returned so we can do analysis after the fact. Of course, there is always the chance that the unit might fail before the specified time or mileage, but that would be valuable information as well. Oh yeah, one other thing. It would be preferable that a new set of points be installed at the same time as the condenser and then returned with the condenser at the end of the test. This will allow us to determine if the capacitance is correct, and if not, which way it is off.

Any takers?
The true test is when the condenser gets real hot. We have over 1,000 people using an IH-200 from Napa. Never heard of a failure in 12 years.
All most all 32 t0 48 condensers Will test good when they are cold. I heat them to about 180 degrees, this is when you can only hold them between 2 fingers for about 2 seconds if you have tough fingers. Heat he condenser and with a needle type analog meter like a Simpson 260. Set into a high range ohm scale and reverse the probes from body to lead, every time the leads are reversed the condenser will store the battery voltage from the meter and read about 1/2 scale and show it slowly discharge. G.M.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Sheesh. Try to something good for the hobby, and you get stuff like this. We are using a film capacitor rated to 200 centigrade and good to 800 volts. We have tested it with a professional condenser tester. And here I get "use an analog voltmeter" and references to "hold them between 2 fingers for about 2 seconds". If you don't want to participate fine, stay away. But don't get in the way of progress.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

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sheesh. Try to something good for the hobby, and you get stuff like this. We are using a film capacitor rated to 200 centigrade and good to 800 volts. We have tested it with a professional condenser tester. And here i get "use an analog voltmeter" and references to "hold them between 2 fingers for about 2 seconds". If you don't want to participate fine, stay away. But don't get in the way of progress.
well spoken tubman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

From reading Lawrie's adventures I would think he would be an ideal testbed.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Denny, You are thinking the right way by testing in the "field" so to speak. Part of my career at Ford was life cycle testing. I had five live engines to test starters, oil filters etc.
We did testing in test chambers that did not get the same result as testing a suspect part
in a car in the "real world". Keep doing what you do. mike
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
Sheesh. Try to something good for the hobby, and you get stuff like this. We are using a film capacitor rated to 200 centigrade and good to 800 volts. We have tested it with a professional condenser tester. And here I get "use an analog voltmeter" and references to "hold them between 2 fingers for about 2 seconds". If you don't want to participate fine, stay away. But don't get in the way of progress.

Well-said, Tub! As usual, there are always a couple (of regulars) that either don't read the post, or that just DON'T GET IT......period! And then, they continue-on to promote some other off-subject-widget or idea that might work perfectly-well on some other planet. A great offer you've made here, on a seemingly well-thought-out product. DD
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubman View Post
Sheesh. Try to something good for the hobby, and you get stuff like this. We are using a film capacitor rated to 200 centigrade and good to 800 volts. We have tested it with a professional condenser tester. And here I get "use an analog voltmeter" and references to "hold them between 2 fingers for about 2 seconds". If you don't want to participate fine, stay away. But don't get in the way of progress.
Amen tubman !!! I have used a few of your brass condesnors and they have worked very well!!! At .33 its perfect for the helmet units. I think the IH200 napas are too low in capacity ( .22 etc) for the helmets. Keep up the good work , youhave a great product!!!

Jim @ Bubbas
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:37 AM   #11
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Thanks for the support guys. It sounds like "Lawrie" would be a perfect test subject, but the fact that he is in Australia complicates matters a bit. I'm not really up on shipping costs and customs issues, but it looks like the additional costs of "going international" may exceed the value of the product. I think I'll PM him and see if he has a better handle on what the additional costs would be.
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Old 11-16-2018, 01:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

The .33 mfd cap was designed more for the type of OEM coils used than it was for the type of distributor. If a person is using a modern can coil then the lower capacity might be better for it. The Sencore LC101 is a very good tester for caps but man are they expensive. Even a used one is up there and a person doesn't even know if it works or not. I have an old Heath Kit C3 that I still use on occasion.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:02 PM   #13
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Yep, caps go with coils. My partner and neighbor (and friend of over 40 years) is a retired EE and he is the electronics expertise behind this venture, He has acquired just about every kind of test equipment there is over the last 50 years. I take his word for the electrical end of things.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.M. View Post
The true test is when the condenser gets real hot. We have over 1,000 people using an IH-200 from Napa. Never heard of a failure in 12 years.
All most all 32 t0 48 condensers Will test good when they are cold. I heat them to about 180 degrees, this is when you can only hold them between 2 fingers for about 2 seconds if you have tough fingers. Heat he condenser and with a needle type analog meter like a Simpson 260. Set into a high range ohm scale and reverse the probes from body to lead, every time the leads are reversed the condenser will store the battery voltage from the meter and read about 1/2 scale and show it slowly discharge. G.M.
Why are you guys getting on G.M. for simply giving a poor mans method of testing capacitors. He is not knocking the" Guinea pig " test link. Good Grief.
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:39 PM   #15
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

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Why are you guys getting on G.M. for simply giving a poor mans method of testing capacitors. He is not knocking the" Guinea pig " test link. Good Grief.
Thank you keith, I designed the coils and water pumps for Skip and
we have more experience with coils, condensers and water pumps
then all the people combined who post on this site. We have 3
Ford~Heyer strobe machines that all Ford dealers used to test a lot
of the equipment on the old Fords. The condenser test part tests parts
like I described. The hot condenser, ohm meter test is reliable. People
send condensers with their coils for Skip to test, he does the "finger"
test I described and they all work when installed. Skip has been doing
this for 20 years. Find me a customer who is not satisfied. G.M.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:17 PM   #16
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

And there is your reason.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:22 PM   #17
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

This is not a thread looking for a "poor man's condenser test". It is about trying to develop a better way of doing things. As such, I take "GM's" remarks as contrary to the purposes of this thread. What are you guys going to do when some 32 year old executive at NAPA decides that the IH-200 condenser doesn't fit with their marketing plans and drops it (or worse, decides to change to an inferior version made off-shore).

I am still offended by his response given the original purpose of my thread. It sounds like someone is getting touchy because a "new guy" is impinging on what some people consider to be "their turf". Sorry guys, it's time for some new blood here.
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

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I am still offended by his response given the original purpose of my thread.

I suggest that you create an 'Ignore List' and place those who offend you on it. By doing this you will no longer see their posts and therefore you will no longer be "offended" by them....
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Old 11-16-2018, 09:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

Notice I said "his response". "GM" has a lot of knowledge and experience that benefits us all, and I would hate to deprive myself of the benefit of it on account of a mere "turf war".
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: Condenser test "guinea pig" wanted

I bought one of Tubman's cans last year, but haven't used it yet. Moved to Oregon and have not made the change yet. Still working on the house so car is not getting a lot of use. Am using the Bosch Coil and it works fine with my Napa condenser.
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