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Old 01-18-2020, 08:05 PM   #1
Mike the Grump
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Default Clutch stuck

Couldn't decide on the right word. Stuck seems best. The car has sat for a long time. It was last started probably 10 years ago. The clutch was stuck then.

Back in the day it was assumed that "eh, the clutch is rusted to the flywheel". Today I'm walking past it and thought "That doesn't make sense. If the clutch was rusted to the flywheel you should be able to depress the pedal".

An hour later I pulled the inspection cover and wiggled the pedal as much as possible. I observed the fork wiggling against the bearing hub which does not move.

My understanding is that the zerk in the bearing hub was to facilitate greasing the non-sealed throwout bearings. I have no idea if the current throwout bearing is sealed or not.

Every thing I've ever read talked about clutch and flywheel rusting together. That makes sense.

I've never read about the pressure plate rusting to the clutch. I assume it can but is not generally an issue as depressing the pedal would pop them apart.


Is it a thing that the clutch, flywheel and pressure plate would rust together to the extent that that pedal cannot be depressed?

Or, should I be considering that the bearing hub could be rusted to the input shaft? There is no visible rust.

I should say that there is currently no body. So. I'm not sitting in the car with my foot on the clutch. I wouldn't think that it would be so heavy that it could not be depressed by hand but maybe I'm wrong and just need more leverage?

Not doing anything with it this month. Don't want to rush into anything. Just trying to start putting a game plan towards getting it back together. This 3 year restoration was started in 1976.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:33 PM   #2
Synchro909
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

It seems you only get this car every now and then so you're in no hurry. Try putting some penetrating oil on the input shaft where the throwout bearing slides and leave it to do its work, maybe adding a little more every now and then. If it is stuck there, it may loosen things up enough to get a little movement. I doubt it would be a cure but it would isolate the culprit.
Another potential place for seizure is the lower clutch shaft in the bell housing or clutch pedal on its shaft. I'd do the same treatment on those places too.
How much pressure were you putting on the clutch pedal?
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:44 PM   #3
J Franklin
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

The disc can adhere to the flywheel because of plain gunk and rust.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

The lever that connects the pedal linkage to the clutch shaft may be broken. A common issue and relatively easy to fix. Check and see if that is the case.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:57 PM   #5
Herb Concord Ca
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

I don't know about others, but I can't depress the clutch pedal with my hand. You have a lot more force using your legs.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:01 PM   #6
Mike the Grump
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

Comments in red.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
It seems you only get this car every now and then so you're in no hurry. Try putting some penetrating oil on the input shaft where the throwout bearing slides and leave it to do its work, maybe adding a little more every now and then. If it is stuck there, it may loosen things up enough to get a little movement. I doubt it would be a cure but it would isolate the culprit. I'd considered that. Decided to post here before I started poking at it or doing anything more.


Another potential place for seizure is the lower clutch shaft in the bell housing or clutch pedal on its shaft. There is only about 1/8th inch of travel but I can see the clutch fork move when I try and depress the pedal. I was using that as an indicator that it was not the pedal on its shaft or the rest of the mechanisim between the pedal and the bearing hub. I'd do the same treatment on those places too.
How much pressure were you putting on the clutch pedal? Enough to rock the car which is in gear with the parking break set.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

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Originally Posted by Herb Concord Ca View Post
I don't know about others, but I can't depress the clutch pedal with my hand. You have a lot more force using your legs.

Could be. I may need to rig up a temporary seat.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

You say the fork moves, so, I'm thinking that the collar is not moving at all. Have you tried to see if you can get grease to the collar ? If the collar will take grease see if you can get at it with a long punch or something similar and give it a couple raps to try and break it loose. We need to try and get the fingers working.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

Does this drive train have a single plate clutch or a multi-plate clutch? The multi-plate type in the earlier cars is prone to hang up but the single plate type can too due to it's metallic properties. The pressure plate assembly can also get corroded up where the adjusting screws pass through the rear plate of the cover assembly. Some folks cut the lip off the flywheel and re-drill the lightened wheel for the 9-inch V8 type clutch.

Anywhere there is a grease zerk, there is a schedule for servicing them. No service equals problems like this. The spring on the throw out bearing hub should return it to its disengaged position. If it doesn't, it needs to be lubricated but it may need penetrants to get it unstuck.To just spray everything in there with penetrants will likely require all the crud to be cleaned off the clutch disk.

There is a method to free a stuck clutch plate but the engine has to be running to do that and it's no guarantee it will work. This link shows how bad they can get.
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/c...ard&th=1008411

Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-19-2020 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:33 AM   #10
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

I've had clutches to stick on model A's that had sit up for long periods of time . If I had the space to drive the car until it warmed up a bit the clutch would unstick . I've never had the clutch pedal to stick .
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:38 AM   #11
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

It sounds to me as well that the collar is stuck. The zerk lubes the slide action of the collar. may get grease to the throw out, But the one I just installed from macs is sealed. Zerks can clog. On heavy equipment like the arm and bucket joint on a backhoe rutting in the dirt clogs some up every time you try to grease it. Now that zerk doesnt get dirty but the grease could have sat for a time long enough to gum up.

If it helps. Ive never pulled an easier engine. Now I didnt require a spreader on my car so that probably sped things up. A slow afternoon or a hardworking hour will get it out.

On second thought. just wadded up half dried up grease may be able to stick the collar enough to where it locks the pedal. have you tried pumping it with grease or kicking it a bit?

Go read the link provided by rotorwrench lots of good ideas to try in there. like blocking the pedal down and let it set.

Last edited by mike657894; 01-19-2020 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:53 AM   #12
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

If the body is not on the frame the best and most comprhensive solution to resolve the issue (s) would be to pull pull the rear axle back and trans to see what's up. My bet is the clutch disc is stuck to the flywheel and if t he clutch hub also has a problem ( not likely) you can resolve. This all can be done in an hours time..... really not difficult. You're spending more time be-laboring and other solutions other than getting it done in my opinion.

Having the body off makes it a piece of cake! Just tackle it!



Use a roloc disc to clean the flywheel and pressure plate while they are off.

Good luck!
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:08 PM   #13
Mike the Grump
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

I appreciate all the thoughts and suggestions. Whether I can get it to release now or not I'll ultimately do the right thing and drop the rear, change the disk and clean up the surfaces. I have some other projects to attend to before I can get to that.


For today I put a ratchet clamp between the pedal and the engine mount to put a little tension on it. I'll add a little grease sometime this week. Maybe I'll get lucky (probably not).


On the 8N site someone commented about having a 2x4 or something that they propped against the clutch pedal when their tractor sat. I'll have to remember that. Sounds like a good idea.


It was asked above if this is a single or multiplate clutch. It may have been multi originally but now there is no return spring on the pedal, There is a spring on the sliding hub, The hub has a zerk not the bearing. I'm no expert but I going to say single plate.


Thanks again. I'll update the thread if progress is made or have questions.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:19 PM   #14
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

I probably shouldn't post this here but it worked for me years ago. I have a cousin who has an early 28 that he wanted to put in the 4th of Juy parade. I hadnít been driven for years. I was somehow successful in getting it to start (before the current crap gas). Unfortunately the clutch would not release so we could shift the gears. I presented a suggestion and my cousin said go for it. We put the rear of the car up on two stacks of wood blocks, put it in reverse and started the car. Once it was running smoothly my cousin pushed the car in the reverse direction forcing the car off the blocks. Once the wheels hit the ground the clutch freed up so we could drive in the parade. By the way, this was a dirt driveway. This could be risky as you might break the drive shaft or a u-joint. Supergnat
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:00 AM   #15
rotorwrench
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

That is one of the common ways except a person only has to jack one side up. It's easier to push off the block that way.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
That is one of the common ways except a person only has to jack one side up. It's easier to push off the block that way.
Or just jack it up and chock the front tires Rev it up some and hit the brakes real hard while in gear and the clutch disengaged (pedal down).
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

Some years ago I installed a new clutch and pressure plate in my 39 and after a year or so could not depress clutch pedal. I pressed so hard I bent the clutch adj. rod. Had to pull it apart again and clutch was rusted to I think the pressure plate. There was not a lot of rust but it didn't take much.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:15 PM   #18
Mike the Grump
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by marko39 View Post
Some years ago I installed a new clutch and pressure plate in my 39 and after a year or so could not depress clutch pedal. I pressed so hard I bent the clutch adj. rod. Had to pull it apart again and clutch was rusted to I think the pressure plate. There was not a lot of rust but it didn't take much.



I think that is likely the case here as well. If it was all put together it might make sense to try and jar it loose.



I just need to clear some time and space to do it right and take it apart. A little busy at work right now. Not likely to be anytime soon.
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Old 01-21-2020, 01:30 PM   #19
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

My clutch got stuck. Wouldn't break loose, even got good at shifting without clutch, went on 40 mile drive, still wouldn't break loose, looking in I could see the hole in the disc, and that it was stuck to the flywheel, so I tapped the disc for a stud, tied a string to each tool to prevent problems, hardly any force pulling with vice grip and it popped loose
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Clutch stuck

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Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ View Post
My clutch got stuck. Wouldn't break loose, even got good at shifting without clutch, went on 40 mile drive, still wouldn't break loose, looking in I could see the hole in the disc, and that it was stuck to the flywheel, so I tapped the disc for a stud, tied a string to each tool to prevent problems, hardly any force pulling with vice grip and it popped loose




Slick idea.
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