The Ford Barn

Bonniewwyn · 11-05-2018, 06:53 PM

I may have the opportunity to buy a '41 Merc. This car was made into a hot rod 30+ yrs ago and along the way the original top mechanism was lost along with the divider between front and rear side windows. Is it possible to buy repro Ford or other to modify and fit or is this am impossible project. Car is nice otherwise and complete. Anything Ford or Lincoln fit this ?

rotorwrench · 11-05-2018, 07:36 PM

Merc stuff is hard to source but persistence pays. Make sure it is a real open car. Some folks try to make the home made variety now and then. What you are describing sounds like a fordor sedan. Ford made convertible sedans but I'm certain that 1939 was the last year they made them and Mercury was left out of that category. It may have been destined for a Carson type top.

19Fordy · 11-05-2018, 07:46 PM

Sounds like someone tried to convert a 4 door convertible into a custom. What rotorwrench says makes sense. I don't think they are highly desirable cars so be very sure of what you are thinking of buying. Post photos before buying if possible for more feedback.

Clem Clement · 11-05-2018, 08:03 PM

Mercury made the 4door convertible sedan one year only : 1940. They sold 970 of them. I have one and love it. I bought it in1956, then Daddy died. I bought the same car back in 2017. It is fully restored so some where there are repo parts for the tubs and top.

rotorwrench · 11-06-2018, 01:01 PM

The repro parts for a 1940 Merc are few and far between. Ford must have felt that the design would sell in the Mercury line up better than it did in the Ford line. The 1939 was the first of the Mercury line so they were still tinkering with the designs they had for it and very little crosses over into the Ford line. 1941 was a change over year so parts are different that year. If it's a 1940 then at least it may be the real thing. If it's a 1941, someone may have been trying to make a one of a kind type custom that would have been like the 1940.

Anything is possible in the custom world. Restoring Mercury cars is not as easy as it is with the Fords. I've had to fabricate a lot of my own stuff for my later Mercury cars.

Karl Wescott · 11-06-2018, 02:54 PM

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A couple of things here...

1941 convertibles did not have a rear side window, that was a feature of 1942-48. The 1941 and 1942-48 shared the basic body stampings and top mechanisms with Mercury and Ford.

Mercury 1940 convertibles and convertible sedans had significantly different from Ford bodies and top mechanisms (We do make the dowel brackets and top iron corner to header brackets).

And of course as noted, as a custom this could be a cut down four-door of some kind.

Perhaps a photo or two would help us identify what it started as.

Bonniewwyn · 11-07-2018, 06:13 PM

Talking to the family they tell me that the top was removable and they don't recall that it folded down but was lost around 1980 .... car was original 4 door convertible not a cut down sedan body. I will have pics to post tomorrow. Motor was lost/stolen at same time top disapeared said to have had some sort of landau irons now gone as well. Now powered by mid 1980's Lincoln v8 & auto trans. Car hasfender skirts.

TJ · 11-07-2018, 08:08 PM

They did not make a 4 door convertible in 1941. It could be '40 that was registered in 1941. We need to see a photo so we can tell you one way or the other exactly what you are trying to purchase..

Bonniewwyn · 11-09-2018, 08:51 AM

[IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG]img4262[/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG] these are the pics of the car, what is it? Would you buy it? Can a top be found?

Bonniewwyn · 11-09-2018, 08:58 AM

merk 41

Bonniewwyn · 11-09-2018, 09:02 AM

merc 1

JSeery · 11-09-2018, 09:14 AM

Your photo post are not showing up. If you need help posting them you can email them to me and I will post them for you. [email protected]

Bonniewwyn · 11-09-2018, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

Your photo post are not showing up. If you need help posting them you can email them to me and I will post them for you. [email protected]

emailing them to you now

JSeery · 11-09-2018, 04:21 PM

Sorry, busy all morning! Here are the photos.

rotorwrench · 11-09-2018, 06:59 PM

The front is 1940 but the brow trim over the grill is missing. It looks like the side and hood trim was removed. The opening in the rear fender is a custom touch. Shaving, decking, and nosing were common back in the day as well as chopping the windshield frame to get a lower appearance. Carson tops were the cat's meow back in the day. The car may have later model frame or drive train but there are no photos so a person can't tell that for sure. If it was done long enough ago, it may still have some original equipment under there. Top irons can be cut down to match the windshield cut but it is certainly a lot of work and it requires the whole top to be modified. The Carson type top mod would have been easier and acceptable back then. The side windows should still have the brite metal frames around them if they are still in place. The dividers between the front and rear side windows would've also had to be modified.

It's a custom so anything done on it will require custom fabrication to get an acceptable look to it. I've seen much worse examples out there. The potential is there to make a nice car out of it but It would be way too much work to restore to original at this point unless someone was sentimental about it.

Bonniewwyn · 11-10-2018, 12:13 PM

I am told that it hada custom chassis built for it about 50 yrs ago +- but can not get to the car to see what it is for a while yet. So this is really a modified 1940 Merc ? Not familiar with Carson tops. Still available ? So this was really a 4 door convert....rre I understand. If running opinions on value ?

tubman · 11-10-2018, 12:54 PM

Being a "shoebox" guy, I'm no expert on the earlier cars, but I sure wouldn't mind having that in my shop. The profile behind the back door tells me it's probably real.

rotorwrench · 11-10-2018, 02:23 PM

Amos Carson was a leather & harness worker before he got into the automotive trim business in Los Angeles, CA. He was know for his "French Style" padded roofs for convertible type cars back when they were gaining popularity in the 1930s. His business later passed into other hands but the name Carson Style Top stuck on the type of padded tops that he fabricated for different customers back in the day. The tops were made over a fabricated metal frame that was as light as could be made so that they could be easily lifted off. The way they were padded, the look was a smooth flowing line from header over the windshield back to the rear deck so as to appear to be like a hard top with no conventional convertible top iron and bow protrusion as is seen on a normal conventional folding top. They usually had several wing nut locations in key structural placements and header fasteners so that two people could lift the top to remove or install. Lots of folks make their own or have them custom fabricated now days. There is information about them on line if you google the subject. This is a good link. http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/c/carson/carson.htm
There is what looks to be a 1938 convertible sedan custom in that link. If a person removes the top for driving, a faux top boot could be constructed to make it appear that there was a standard convertible top folded & covered with a top boot in place

Bonniewwyn · 11-15-2018, 06:38 PM

Thank you to everyone that responded. I should be able to get pics that I take myself in the near future and we will see about getting the car running. It was said to be running last summer. I need to establish a value to make an offer.

bobH · 11-16-2018, 07:26 PM

Cool looking car. I'll bet you will really enjoy it. Just be aware... you are not buying a 41 Merc. I'll stick my neck out, and guess it will be in the 30 to 40 range, in todays market. Maybe even less, if quality lacks. Lots of evidence if you follow prices for 39-40's that the market if very soft. Even soft if you watch auction prices. Just opinion.

11-05-2018, 06:53 PM	#1
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	1941 mercury convertible I may have the opportunity to buy a '41 Merc. This car was made into a hot rod 30+ yrs ago and along the way the original top mechanism was lost along with the divider between front and rear side windows. Is it possible to buy repro Ford or other to modify and fit or is this am impossible project. Car is nice otherwise and complete. Anything Ford or Lincoln fit this ?

11-05-2018, 07:36 PM	#2
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Merc stuff is hard to source but persistence pays. Make sure it is a real open car. Some folks try to make the home made variety now and then. What you are describing sounds like a fordor sedan. Ford made convertible sedans but I'm certain that 1939 was the last year they made them and Mercury was left out of that category. It may have been destined for a Carson type top.

11-05-2018, 07:46 PM	#3
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,942	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Sounds like someone tried to convert a 4 door convertible into a custom. What rotorwrench says makes sense. I don't think they are highly desirable cars so be very sure of what you are thinking of buying. Post photos before buying if possible for more feedback.

11-05-2018, 08:03 PM	#4
Clem Clement Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 3,393	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Mercury made the 4door convertible sedan one year only : 1940. They sold 970 of them. I have one and love it. I bought it in1956, then Daddy died. I bought the same car back in 2017. It is fully restored so some where there are repo parts for the tubs and top.

11-06-2018, 01:01 PM	#5
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: 1941 mercury convertible The repro parts for a 1940 Merc are few and far between. Ford must have felt that the design would sell in the Mercury line up better than it did in the Ford line. The 1939 was the first of the Mercury line so they were still tinkering with the designs they had for it and very little crosses over into the Ford line. 1941 was a change over year so parts are different that year. If it's a 1940 then at least it may be the real thing. If it's a 1941, someone may have been trying to make a one of a kind type custom that would have been like the 1940. Anything is possible in the custom world. Restoring Mercury cars is not as easy as it is with the Fords. I've had to fabricate a lot of my own stuff for my later Mercury cars. Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-06-2018 at 01:07 PM.

11-06-2018, 02:54 PM	#6
Karl Wescott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,287	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) A couple of things here... 1941 convertibles did not have a rear side window, that was a feature of 1942-48. The 1941 and 1942-48 shared the basic body stampings and top mechanisms with Mercury and Ford. Mercury 1940 convertibles and convertible sedans had significantly different from Ford bodies and top mechanisms (We do make the dowel brackets and top iron corner to header brackets). And of course as noted, as a custom this could be a cut down four-door of some kind. Perhaps a photo or two would help us identify what it started as.

11-07-2018, 06:13 PM	#7
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Talking to the family they tell me that the top was removable and they don't recall that it folded down but was lost around 1980 .... car was original 4 door convertible not a cut down sedan body. I will have pics to post tomorrow. Motor was lost/stolen at same time top disapeared said to have had some sort of landau irons now gone as well. Now powered by mid 1980's Lincoln v8 & auto trans. Car hasfender skirts.

11-07-2018, 08:08 PM	#8
TJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napa,California Posts: 6,037	Re: 1941 mercury convertible They did not make a 4 door convertible in 1941. It could be '40 that was registered in 1941. We need to see a photo so we can tell you one way or the other exactly what you are trying to purchase..

11-09-2018, 08:51 AM	#9
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	Re: 1941 mercury convertible [IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG]img4262[/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG] these are the pics of the car, what is it? Would you buy it? Can a top be found?

11-09-2018, 08:58 AM	#10
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	Re: 1941 mercury convertible merk 41

11-09-2018, 09:02 AM	#11
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	Re: 1941 mercury convertible merc 1

11-09-2018, 09:14 AM	#12
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Your photo post are not showing up. If you need help posting them you can email them to me and I will post them for you. [email protected]

11-09-2018, 06:59 PM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: 1941 mercury convertible The front is 1940 but the brow trim over the grill is missing. It looks like the side and hood trim was removed. The opening in the rear fender is a custom touch. Shaving, decking, and nosing were common back in the day as well as chopping the windshield frame to get a lower appearance. Carson tops were the cat's meow back in the day. The car may have later model frame or drive train but there are no photos so a person can't tell that for sure. If it was done long enough ago, it may still have some original equipment under there. Top irons can be cut down to match the windshield cut but it is certainly a lot of work and it requires the whole top to be modified. The Carson type top mod would have been easier and acceptable back then. The side windows should still have the brite metal frames around them if they are still in place. The dividers between the front and rear side windows would've also had to be modified. It's a custom so anything done on it will require custom fabrication to get an acceptable look to it. I've seen much worse examples out there. The potential is there to make a nice car out of it but It would be way too much work to restore to original at this point unless someone was sentimental about it. Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-10-2018 at 04:59 PM.

11-10-2018, 12:13 PM	#16
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	Re: 1941 mercury convertible I am told that it hada custom chassis built for it about 50 yrs ago +- but can not get to the car to see what it is for a while yet. So this is really a modified 1940 Merc ? Not familiar with Carson tops. Still available ? So this was really a 4 door convert....rre I understand. If running opinions on value ?

11-10-2018, 12:54 PM	#17
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,316	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Being a "shoebox" guy, I'm no expert on the earlier cars, but I sure wouldn't mind having that in my shop. The profile behind the back door tells me it's probably real.

11-10-2018, 02:23 PM	#18
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Amos Carson was a leather & harness worker before he got into the automotive trim business in Los Angeles, CA. He was know for his "French Style" padded roofs for convertible type cars back when they were gaining popularity in the 1930s. His business later passed into other hands but the name Carson Style Top stuck on the type of padded tops that he fabricated for different customers back in the day. The tops were made over a fabricated metal frame that was as light as could be made so that they could be easily lifted off. The way they were padded, the look was a smooth flowing line from header over the windshield back to the rear deck so as to appear to be like a hard top with no conventional convertible top iron and bow protrusion as is seen on a normal conventional folding top. They usually had several wing nut locations in key structural placements and header fasteners so that two people could lift the top to remove or install. Lots of folks make their own or have them custom fabricated now days. There is information about them on line if you google the subject. This is a good link. http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/c/carson/carson.htm There is what looks to be a 1938 convertible sedan custom in that link. If a person removes the top for driving, a faux top boot could be constructed to make it appear that there was a standard convertible top folded & covered with a top boot in place Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-10-2018 at 04:55 PM.

11-15-2018, 06:38 PM	#19
Bonniewwyn Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hudson Fla Posts: 117	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Thank you to everyone that responded. I should be able to get pics that I take myself in the near future and we will see about getting the car running. It was said to be running last summer. I need to establish a value to make an offer.

11-16-2018, 07:26 PM	#20
bobH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: so cal, placerville, vegas Posts: 1,394	Re: 1941 mercury convertible Cool looking car. I'll bet you will really enjoy it. Just be aware... you are not buying a 41 Merc. I'll stick my neck out, and guess it will be in the 30 to 40 range, in todays market. Maybe even less, if quality lacks. Lots of evidence if you follow prices for 39-40's that the market if very soft. Even soft if you watch auction prices. Just opinion.