Spring Lube ?? Additional....

[jb-ob]

For those who followed and contributed to a recent thread on lubing springs, I'd like to add this.


'Ford Motor Company'
August 2, 1929
Weekly Service Letter (Chicago)


Spring Lubrication


"We received a number of front and rear springs which are returned as defective, the statement being made they are weak. Our inspections shows that they have been over lubricated with penetrating oil and that the interleaf friction is lost, with the result that the spring fatigues. We therefore urge the use of Spring Covers for proper spring lubrication, and the discontinuance of excessive spraying with penetrating oil, as springs affected in this way can not be considered defective."




So don't excessively lube and the "loss of interleaf friction resulting in spring fatigue" might explain why the manufacturers of new replacement springs suggest not lubing them today ???

[Railcarmover]

yes..its not just model a's,no automotive leaf spring needs lubrication

[Pete]

"Ford Motor Company'
August 2, 1929
Weekly Service Letter (Chicago)


Spring Lubrication


"We received a number of front and rear springs which are returned as defective, the statement being made they are weak. Our inspections shows that they have been over lubricated with penetrating oil and that the interleaf friction is lost, with the result that the spring fatigues. We therefore urge the use of Spring Covers for proper spring lubrication, and the discontinuance of excessive spraying with penetrating oil, as springs affected in this way can not be considered defective."

WHAT A CROCK.

[Kurt in NJ]

Yet in 1936 Ford introduced a fitting and oil grooves in the leaves to be lubricated with "spring" lube, which was ice machine oil(77%), talc, and a dash of ground asbestos, talc is a dry lubricant and polishing agent, ice machine oil is about the consistency of auto trans fluid----
Since I have been lubricating the springs with atf the ride has improved, handling on rough roads better, tires are staying on the road --- good trade off for perhaps less spring life, the nearly worn out front spring has survived 80 some years, if I only get 40 years out of a new one I will be happy ---- of course I have properly working shocks

[updraught]

So, why did they add those nylon discs to the leaves in later years?

[Werner]

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Hello to each other,



I worked at Ford in quality control until the 70's. The individual leaf springs for rear axles were phosphated to better glide. After that they were "gebondert" bound several different layers. In addition, to enable life-long sliding lubrication and to prevent corrosion.



Thin nylon inserts had the main purpose of not squeaking.


(I coated the new spring leafes with anti friction paint.)

[updraught]

[Chris Haynes]

I had a '41 that had sheet metal covers on the springs and a grease fitting in the spring bolt.

[Mike85212]

My understanding is that sometime in the mid to late fifties the springs began to be made out of a different steel. The new springs are supposedly not to be oiled or greased. I personally do not understand this next part but if you oil or grease them it will somehow change the molecular makeup of the steel and will prematurely weaken them. Greasing or oiling before the change was recommended.
As a side note if you are sanding or grinding the springs you are supposed to go length wise only, otherwise it will weaken the spring.
Mike

[updraught]

OK. Let's see what Google says:

"how a car works"
https://www.howacarworks.com/suspens...g-leaf-springs

"Modern leaf springs do not need lubricating with oil — which may damage any anti-friction material between leaves. Spray them instead with a silicone-based lubricant."

[RandyinUtah]

I have a 1959 Triumph Tr3 along with the factory service manual. The manual states that the rear leaf spring should be painted with the used drain oil to provide rust protection.
On the Triumph Forum there is no disagreement on this practice. I have always lubricated my Model A springs.

[Y-Blockhead]

I have seen numerous styles of leaf 'greasers'. Here is one type I have seen on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Model-T-For...RhY0:rk:1:pf:0

I made the one I use. After lubing the spring I installed spring covers or "Gaiters" (I learnt a new word...) to keep dirt off.

[Bob Bidonde]

Leaf springs are designed to have a certain amount of friction between the leaves. It is not an apples to apples comparison between the springs on Model A's and Ford V8's.

[Jw]

watch "Watch How Its Made" making leaf springs, no lube between leaves, and once assembled, dipped in paint,

[redmodelt]

I think you some of you guys are trying to compare now with then. We are talking about Model A's here not modern cars. The reason to use covers is to keep the springs clean and lube in.

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I made the one I use. After lubing the spring I installed spring covers or "Gaiters" (I learnt a new word...) to keep dirt off.[/COLOR]

Where can I buy Gaiters?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Jw

watch "Watch How Its Made" making leaf springs, no lube between leaves, and once assembled, dipped in paint,

That program has so many engineering flaws, it is a wonder it is still on the air.

[Kurt in NJ]

no lube = not much need for properly operating shocks due to interleaf friction

[john in illinois]

I do not oil my springs on a regular basis,but when I do oil them I notice a much better ride over bumps. Even the Posie rear spring on my roadster was much better riding with oil.
I use LPS chainmate spray.

John

[Ruth]

I recently rode in a friends '30 Town Sedan, a similar car to mine. I could not believe how harshly it rode. When I asked if he ever lubed his springs he replied "You're not supposed to lube leaf springs". Not worth the discussion for me because I know he is set in his ways but my Town Sedan rides so much nicer than his. I think the only suspension he had was the flattening of his tires when we hit a bump in the road.

Think I'll stick with my lubed springs, gaiters and Stipe Shocks

[Werner]

Hello,


If the individual springs in the spring package are not lubricated and glide badly and differently, then the spring leaves, which glide easily, must additionally absorb the force from the leaves, which glide badly. This overloads them.

Wherever a relative movement takes place, friction and wear are created. Therefore, it must be lubricated there.

In the picture you can see how the upper spring leaf worked into the lower one, because the spring ran dry. About 0.3 millimeters!

[Railcarmover]

Petroleum based lubricants and the abrasives in road debris combine to make lapping compound,fine for seating valves,bad for springs.Ford vanadium steel leaf springs are no different than modern leaf springs made today,all spring packs (a stack of leaves is called a pack)when assembled are assembled clean and dry to insure the center bolt clamps the leaves together and bears proper load to hold the leaves in alignment,any lubrication would deter the ability of the center bolt to work,its how leaf springs ultimately fail,through wear the tension on the center bolt degrades. Spring packs 'lubricate' and remain rust free through action.in the above photo the leaves are worn due to use,they have achieved the end of their life cycle,lubrication would have accelerated the failure.

[Werner]

That's not true.



The centering screw only has the task to center the spring package in the middle. Not more!

Holding the spring package is done by the two briden / bars, which fixes the entire package with the four very thick screws.

If the spring had been lubricated properly, it would have no abrasion / wear!

[Kurt in NJ]

There is a lubrication point in the hand crank bearing to drool on the center bolt and onto the spring to lubricate it in the crossmember

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by Werner

That's not true.



The centering screw only has the task to center the spring package in the middle. Not more!

Holding the spring package is done by the two briden / bars, which fixes the entire package with the four very thick screws.

If the spring had been lubricated properly, it would have no abrasion / wear!

well,since Im lying,lets put it to the test...center your head directly over the center bolt,your nose 3" from it,and cut the center bolt head off cleanly and quickly with a torch..once you recover,post your results..

[taffrail]

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In the grease and oiling chart there is a hole in the crank bearing/spring clamp that is supposed to be oiled and it's not for the crank. I oil it when I oil everything else. Also but a short piece of hose on the radiator over flow tube so it won't drip on the spring.

[redmodelt]

While the bolt does hold the spring pack together before assembly, the center bolt job is to keep the leafs in alignment when installed, the clamps hold the spring in place in the channel and apply clamping force to each side of the center bolt. Plenty of A's have broken center bolts and they don't have exploding springs, the leafs may shift but they don't explode under the car.

[Chris Haynes]

I just picked up a very rusty spring that had been stored outside for decades. I am planning to break it down for cleaning and painting. Is it possible to slide the clamps off and back on? If not what are my options?

[redmodelt]

If you are talking about these;
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/rear-spring-clamps
Maybe not. They have a locating pin that fits into the leaf. You would still need to take precautions because the springs are still are under tension even if it's old and rusty.