The Ford Barn

nuwala · 09-23-2015, 08:16 AM

Could not really find an answer in the forum despite a bit of searching.

Anyway, I want to change my aging A-Engine with a restored Diamond B-Engine by maintaining the entire drive train: A-gearbox, A-clutch housing, A-flywheel housing, A-Flywheel. All to be mounted on a A-Frame.

I understood that:
-A & B Flywheels are different, I only have a A flywheel and A flywheel housing. Therefore, I need to keep the A-flywheel and A-flywheel housing and all the other stuff towards the rear.
-B-clutch housing does not have the engine mount for A frames, fine – will take A-clutch housing
-B oil pan is in the way of the A flywheel housing.
Questions:
-Will the A-flywheel fit to the B-crank shaft mount?
-Will the A-flywheel housing fit to the B-Block?
-What modification is required for the B-oil pan on the A-flywheel housing? Can I simply mount an A oil pan on the B-engine?
-Will the A-inlet and A-exhaust manifold fit to the slightly larger B block holes?
-What other challenges may I experience when marrying A and B?

many thanks in advance.

Rowdy · 09-23-2015, 08:47 AM

I would use the B flywheel that was more than likely balanced to your engine. I do not see why it would not work. Rod

nuwala · 09-23-2015, 11:18 AM

Thanks guys. Apologies for the difficult questions. I should have better asked:
Can I bolt a Model B engine block into a Model A?

hardtimes · 09-23-2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuwala

Thanks guys. Apologies for the difficult questions. I should have better asked:
Can I bolt a Model B engine block into a Model A?

As said, to mount your B pan as you suggest, you must remove ( modify)the rear portion of the B pan..not difficult at all.

As to mounting a A pan to the B block, yes it can be done, and I just did this to a B project that I am building. My B pan was junk and I have three A pans...so with some modification...different and harder than the B pan modification...the A pan was put on my B block.
I have pictures of the process of modifications of A pan needed for my B block. If you care to see them, give me an email

.

If you have a B pan that is good condition, I'd have used that.

Charlie Stephens · 09-23-2015, 11:47 AM

All of the previous posts have been correct but I have a couple of things to add:

1. Before you modify the B pan by cutting off the back part advertise for a swap, at the rate things are going there won't be any original pans left.
2. The B pan won't just mount on the A engine because the B rear main is much larger and the B pan is shaped to clear the larger bearing. The B pan also has dimples for the rods to clear but this can be worked with a hammer (the real problem is the shape a the rear for the main bearing).
3. Although this is not what you are proposing to do, just for general information you cannot use a unmodified (as it hasn't been lightened) A flywheel with a B transmission or it will rub the transmission case. In this case since you are using an A transmission you can use either flywheel.
4. For ease of timing use the timing gear cover that matches the distributer you intend to use.

FYI, This is exactly the set up I have in my '31 RDPU, works great.

Charlie Stephens

nuwala · 09-23-2015, 12:59 PM

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Thanks guys. I'll give it a go.

Anyone having a picture of how the rear end of the B-pan shall look when done professional? We Germans tend to be professional - except with Volkswagen emission pollution.

Charlie Stephens · 09-23-2015, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuwala

Thanks guys. I'll give it a go.

Anyone having a picture of how the rear end of the B-pan shall look when done professional? We Germans tend to be professional - except with Volkswagen emission pollution.

The attached photo shows the strip of metal I left on mine when I cut the back of the pan off. A "professional" would have removed the spot welds and filled any imperfections. (unfortunately some of the "professionals" I have encountered lately would have just used a cutting torch) I left the strip since I felt it be more work to remove it and one more place to leak.

Charlie Stephens

40 Deluxe · 09-23-2015, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuwala

Thanks guys. I'll give it a go.

Anyone having a picture of how the rear end of the B-pan shall look when done professional? We Germans tend to be professional - except with Volkswagen emission pollution.

I thought the VW thing was a brilliant workaround to the problem of excessively strict emission laws, but I can't condone the dishonesty. I love my Diesel Jetta just the way it is-performs great with fantastic mileage.

hardtimes · 09-23-2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuwala

Thanks guys. I'll give it a go.

Anyone having a picture of how the rear end of the B-pan shall look when done professional? We Germans tend to be professional - except with Volkswagen emission pollution.

Hey nuwala,
Here are some pictures of the B pan that was properly modified where you are concerned. Hope these help

. Pretty straight forward. Someone must have run custom large rods and beat the heck out (ruined) of shape otherwise.

Terry, NJ · 09-24-2015, 08:15 AM

Ditto! My 2002 TDI (170K miles) is the best handling, most fuel efficient car I've ever owned! Previously I loved SAAB 9000 and I am keeping my last 9000. What's wrong with it is that VW made all their fluids proprietary a and expensive! (OUCH$$$$) And what's with the oil filter? It's from the 1940s! My Case Backhoe with a Cummins diesel has a spin on filter. And why all the engine covers? Changing oil is a real event with this car. And what happened to the transmission drain plug? There's more good with this car than bad so I keep it, but I don't think I'll buy another one.
Terry

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

I thought the VW thing was a brilliant workaround to the problem of excessively strict emission laws, but I can't condone the dishonesty. I love my Diesel Jetta just the way it is-performs great with fantastic mileage.

john charlton · 09-24-2015, 08:49 AM

I have this setup in my cabriolet . Model AA trucks were built at the Manchester plant into 1936 . These were fitted with the model B engine so were fitted with a B oil pan which had no shroud at the rear also a larger "C" plate which bolts to the front of the flywheel housing . If you have a counter weighted crank and as you are in Germany most likely you have you can cut the A flywheel down to the the model B spec weight . I might have a spare large "C" plate spare I will check . You might get lucky as therse late AA trucks were also available in Germany and you could maybe locate the correct oil pan . Good luck .

John in sunny Suffolk County England .

09-23-2015, 08:16 AM	#1
nuwala Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Germany / Munich Posts: 36	Marriage of B-Block to A-Flywheel? Could not really find an answer in the forum despite a bit of searching. Anyway, I want to change my aging A-Engine with a restored Diamond B-Engine by maintaining the entire drive train: A-gearbox, A-clutch housing, A-flywheel housing, A-Flywheel. All to be mounted on a A-Frame. I understood that: -A & B Flywheels are different, I only have a A flywheel and A flywheel housing. Therefore, I need to keep the A-flywheel and A-flywheel housing and all the other stuff towards the rear. -B-clutch housing does not have the engine mount for A frames, fine – will take A-clutch housing -B oil pan is in the way of the A flywheel housing. Questions: -Will the A-flywheel fit to the B-crank shaft mount? -Will the A-flywheel housing fit to the B-Block? -What modification is required for the B-oil pan on the A-flywheel housing? Can I simply mount an A oil pan on the B-engine? -Will the A-inlet and A-exhaust manifold fit to the slightly larger B block holes? -What other challenges may I experience when marrying A and B? many thanks in advance.

09-23-2015, 08:47 AM	#2
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Marriage of B-Block to A-Flywheel? I would use the B flywheel that was more than likely balanced to your engine. I do not see why it would not work. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

09-23-2015, 11:18 AM	#3
nuwala Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Germany / Munich Posts: 36	Re: Marriage of B-Block to A-Flywheel? Thanks guys. Apologies for the difficult questions. I should have better asked: Can I bolt a Model B engine block into a Model A?

09-23-2015, 11:47 AM	#5
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,032	Re: Marriage of B-Block to A-Flywheel? All of the previous posts have been correct but I have a couple of things to add: 1. Before you modify the B pan by cutting off the back part advertise for a swap, at the rate things are going there won't be any original pans left. 2. The B pan won't just mount on the A engine because the B rear main is much larger and the B pan is shaped to clear the larger bearing. The B pan also has dimples for the rods to clear but this can be worked with a hammer (the real problem is the shape a the rear for the main bearing). 3. Although this is not what you are proposing to do, just for general information you cannot use a unmodified (as it hasn't been lightened) A flywheel with a B transmission or it will rub the transmission case. In this case since you are using an A transmission you can use either flywheel. 4. For ease of timing use the timing gear cover that matches the distributer you intend to use. FYI, This is exactly the set up I have in my '31 RDPU, works great. Charlie Stephens

09-23-2015, 12:59 PM	#6
nuwala Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Germany / Munich Posts: 36	Re: Marriage of B-Block to A-Flywheel? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks guys. I'll give it a go. Anyone having a picture of how the rear end of the B-pan shall look when done professional? We Germans tend to be professional - except with Volkswagen emission pollution.

09-24-2015, 08:49 AM	#11
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Marriage of B-Block to A-Flywheel? I have this setup in my cabriolet . Model AA trucks were built at the Manchester plant into 1936 . These were fitted with the model B engine so were fitted with a B oil pan which had no shroud at the rear also a larger "C" plate which bolts to the front of the flywheel housing . If you have a counter weighted crank and as you are in Germany most likely you have you can cut the A flywheel down to the the model B spec weight . I might have a spare large "C" plate spare I will check . You might get lucky as therse late AA trucks were also available in Germany and you could maybe locate the correct oil pan . Good luck . John in sunny Suffolk County England .