The Ford Barn

bigd1101 · 07-02-2021, 06:14 AM

As some know here, I've been dealing with a dead (zero compression) number 6 cylinder on the 53 Merc flathead V8. Looks like two days of saturating the top of the valves with PB Blaster, Seafoam and MMO through the sparkplug hole has moved the exhaust valve up from its seat. I also ran a good bit of Seafoam through the left carb throat while running the car, yesterday, and MMO this morning. To my delight, it appears that I'm making headway. I didn't want to pull the manifold, so....so far, it might have done the trick. I shut her down and poured more MMO in the hole and will let it sit for a day and fire her up tomorrow. She ran a bit rough, and smoked a bit, but I put quite a dose of MMO in her, so once that all burns off, I'm hoping she smooths out. I don't have a compression gage to see what she's putting out, but will get one to see if it's up. Fingers crossed.

RalphG · 07-02-2021, 06:29 AM

Valve moved up? If it has been running with zero compression on that cylinder the valve would have been stuck open. Already in the up position.

bigd1101 · 07-02-2021, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RalphG

Valve moved up? If it has been running with zero compression on that cylinder the valve would have been stuck open. Already in the up position.

So which valve is just below the sparkplug hole? Whatever that one was, was closed and now it's open. Or at least when I check the spot after running the car. Hard to tell through the tiny hole and not observing it while I run the car. How can I turn the engine over by hand so I can look down in there and see what's going on? The shop did a compression check and it was in fact zero.

Mart · 07-02-2021, 07:37 AM

If you put your thumb over then plug hole and crank the motor you will be able to tell if you have more than zero compression. Do it on a good cylinder as a comparison. You might be able to pick up a compression tester at a local parts store. They are not very expensive.

marko39 · 07-02-2021, 07:40 AM

If a valve is stuck in the closed position the engine will not turn over.

Mart · 07-02-2021, 07:45 AM

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In your previous post you said left front cylinder. Assuming that means USA driver's side front cylinder, that is cylinder number 5.
Which cylinder has zero compression, 5, or 6?

bigd1101 · 07-02-2021, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko39

If a valve is stuck in the closed position the engine will not turn over.

It runs quite well, other than the rough idle I was experiencing when I got the car. It seems to be idling better now, so I'm not sure what all the products I used did, if anything. Like I said, the shop said zero compression in the one cylinder. Who knows. I'm looking at getting a professional here that works on these engines to tell me what I need or don't need. Maybe next week. If I need some engine work aka, rebuild, I will forge ahead. The car cosmetically is perfect, so it deserves a good running engine.

bigd1101 · 07-02-2021, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

In your previous post you said left front cylinder. Assuming that means USA driver's side front cylinder, that is cylinder number 5.
Which cylinder has zero compression, 5, or 6?

According to the shop, "drivers side, second back", so second from the front ( I hope) I also treated the cylinder next to it, meaning the two center ones, just in case I read the billing wrong.

" second back plug, left drivers side, was fuel fouled and preformed compassion test and found zero compression"

Frank Miller · 07-02-2021, 08:15 AM

You appear to lck some understanding about what a stuck valve is. Someone mentioned "stuck closed" which will not allow the motor to turn. Typically varnish builds up on the guides and causes the valve to not close. A valve that does not close will give you zero compression. Putting marvel mystery oil in carb while running will usually do the trick. Flathead valve springs are not very stiff so it does not take a lot. The shop should have been able to give you a better diagnosis.
If you are not experiencing back fire or popping through the carb I would venture that your problem is on the exhaust side. That is even if it is a stuck valve. There are other things that can give you zero compression.
If you have access to an air compressor then bring #6 to the top and pressurize the cylinder and listen for where the air is leaking. A blow gun and a rag is one way to presurize the cylinder.

bigd1101 · 07-02-2021, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Miller

You appear to lck some understanding about what a stuck valve is. Someone mentioned "stuck closed" which will not allow the motor to turn. Typically varnish builds up on the guides and causes the valve to not close. A valve that does not close will give you zero compression. Putting marvel mystery oil in carb while running will usually do the trick. Flathead valve springs are not very stiff so it does not take a lot. The shop should have been able to give you a better diagnosis.
If you are not experiencing back fire or popping through the carb I would venture that your problem is on the exhaust side. That is even if it is a stuck valve. There are other things that can give you zero compression.
If you have access to an air compressor then bring #6 to the top and pressurize the cylinder and listen for where the air is leaking. A blow gun and a rag is one way to presurize the cylinder.

I do have a air compressor. No backfiring or popping, just a somewhat rough idle, like that cylinder with no compression is not doing its job. I did a MMO down the carb this morning. How much should I use in this case?

Jack E/NJ · 07-02-2021, 08:30 AM

If cylinders were numbered tlke GM and Xler, it'd be the #3 cylinder or #5 cylinder from the front. #3 being the second back from the front on the US drivers side. And #5 being the second forward from the back on the US drivers side. Instead, Ford has #6 being the second back from the front. And #7 being the second forward from the back. That should clear up everything. 8^)

joe 1950 · 07-02-2021, 08:54 AM

Just a word of caution don’t crank engine over with the spark plug in if you think the cylinder has to much mmo in it you could wind up with major damage ,also on those old flatheads add 3oz of mmo to every 10 gallons of gas helps to keep the valve guides and stems clean

51 MERC-CT · 07-02-2021, 09:04 AM

If after all the procedures are tried, it does not smooth out and compression is not restored, you might have to consider that you have a burnt exhaust valve.
This is one that was removed after exhibiting similar symptoms. (and this was #6 exhaust valve )

JSeery · 07-02-2021, 09:20 AM

It could also have been stuck rings that are starting to loosen up.

Bob C · 07-02-2021, 10:03 AM

This may help.

bigd1101 · 07-02-2021, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

This may help.

It is no. 6

tubman · 07-02-2021, 12:49 PM

I hate to be one, but how much faith can you put in a chart that is labeled "1949-1953 Flathead Firing Order" that uses the picture of an obviously earlier vintage engine.

It is correct though.

Lanny · 07-02-2021, 12:54 PM

Take the # 6 plug out and put your finger over the plug hole as
someone is cranking the engine over. You will feel if there is
compression in that cylinder.
Pull the coil wire out as you are doing this.

Once you have compression in that cylinder, then just start adding
four ounces of MMO to each tank of gas, to keep the valve stems lubed.

.

3quarter32 · 07-02-2021, 09:39 PM

I was under the impression that all Flathead v8s had the same firing order including the 60hp. Is that correct?

bigd1101 · 07-03-2021, 08:21 AM

So far so good with the stuck valve. The MMO must have done it, along with the PB Blaster and the Seafoam treatments. She fires right up cold and seems to be smoothing out a bit compared to before all this started. I have not had a chance to see what kind of compression I'm getting on no. 6, but I'm having new shocks put on when I get back from vacation and will have the shop do a diagnosis. MMO is in the tank now and hopefully that will keep the valve guides nice and happy, going forward. Gone too is the hesitation when I rev her up. I will at some point have the local flatty guy do a complete inspection (the right way) and let me know if a valve job or more is in order at some point. It does not smoke and the oil looks like it just came out of the can, so I suspect the rings are good but who knows how long that cylinder was dead and driven. I doubt much as like I have said, the 80 year old guy I got the car from did not drive the car for I would guess a year or more, due to his failing health. Time will tell at this point. I'm not driving it until I get a compression test as I want to be sure all is working as it should, when I do.

07-02-2021, 06:14 AM	#1
bigd1101 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ithaca Posts: 345	Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! As some know here, I've been dealing with a dead (zero compression) number 6 cylinder on the 53 Merc flathead V8. Looks like two days of saturating the top of the valves with PB Blaster, Seafoam and MMO through the sparkplug hole has moved the exhaust valve up from its seat. I also ran a good bit of Seafoam through the left carb throat while running the car, yesterday, and MMO this morning. To my delight, it appears that I'm making headway. I didn't want to pull the manifold, so....so far, it might have done the trick. I shut her down and poured more MMO in the hole and will let it sit for a day and fire her up tomorrow. She ran a bit rough, and smoked a bit, but I put quite a dose of MMO in her, so once that all burns off, I'm hoping she smooths out. I don't have a compression gage to see what she's putting out, but will get one to see if it's up. Fingers crossed.

07-02-2021, 06:29 AM	#2
RalphG Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Sask. Canada Posts: 2,424	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! Valve moved up? If it has been running with zero compression on that cylinder the valve would have been stuck open. Already in the up position. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/roosty6/videos

07-02-2021, 07:37 AM	#4
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,749	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! If you put your thumb over then plug hole and crank the motor you will be able to tell if you have more than zero compression. Do it on a good cylinder as a comparison. You might be able to pick up a compression tester at a local parts store. They are not very expensive.

07-02-2021, 08:15 AM	#9
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! You appear to lck some understanding about what a stuck valve is. Someone mentioned "stuck closed" which will not allow the motor to turn. Typically varnish builds up on the guides and causes the valve to not close. A valve that does not close will give you zero compression. Putting marvel mystery oil in carb while running will usually do the trick. Flathead valve springs are not very stiff so it does not take a lot. The shop should have been able to give you a better diagnosis. If you are not experiencing back fire or popping through the carb I would venture that your problem is on the exhaust side. That is even if it is a stuck valve. There are other things that can give you zero compression. If you have access to an air compressor then bring #6 to the top and pressurize the cylinder and listen for where the air is leaking. A blow gun and a rag is one way to presurize the cylinder. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

07-02-2021, 08:30 AM	#11
Jack E/NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,173	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! If cylinders were numbered tlke GM and Xler, it'd be the #3 cylinder or #5 cylinder from the front. #3 being the second back from the front on the US drivers side. And #5 being the second forward from the back on the US drivers side. Instead, Ford has #6 being the second back from the front. And #7 being the second forward from the back. That should clear up everything. 8^)

07-02-2021, 07:40 AM	#5
marko39 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: harpursville ny Posts: 1,040	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! If a valve is stuck in the closed position the engine will not turn over.

07-02-2021, 07:45 AM	#6
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,749	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) In your previous post you said left front cylinder. Assuming that means USA driver's side front cylinder, that is cylinder number 5. Which cylinder has zero compression, 5, or 6?

07-02-2021, 08:54 AM	#12
joe 1950 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Green Bay Wi Posts: 400	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! Just a word of caution don’t crank engine over with the spark plug in if you think the cylinder has to much mmo in it you could wind up with major damage ,also on those old flatheads add 3oz of mmo to every 10 gallons of gas helps to keep the valve guides and stems clean

07-02-2021, 09:04 AM	#13
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! If after all the procedures are tried, it does not smooth out and compression is not restored, you might have to consider that you have a burnt exhaust valve. This is one that was removed after exhibiting similar symptoms. (and this was #6 exhaust valve ) __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES Last edited by 51 MERC-CT; 07-02-2021 at 11:04 AM.

07-02-2021, 09:20 AM	#14
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! It could also have been stuck rings that are starting to loosen up.

07-02-2021, 12:49 PM	#17
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! I hate to be one, but how much faith can you put in a chart that is labeled "1949-1953 Flathead Firing Order" that uses the picture of an obviously earlier vintage engine. It is correct though.

07-02-2021, 12:54 PM	#18
Lanny Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mn Posts: 2,411	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! Take the # 6 plug out and put your finger over the plug hole as someone is cranking the engine over. You will feel if there is compression in that cylinder. Pull the coil wire out as you are doing this. Once you have compression in that cylinder, then just start adding four ounces of MMO to each tank of gas, to keep the valve stems lubed. . __________________ If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. But if daddy ain't happy...RUN

07-02-2021, 09:39 PM	#19
3quarter32 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Broken Arrow, OK Posts: 147	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! I was under the impression that all Flathead v8s had the same firing order including the 60hp. Is that correct?

07-03-2021, 08:21 AM	#20
bigd1101 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ithaca Posts: 345	Re: Some success on freeing up the valve on the 53! So far so good with the stuck valve. The MMO must have done it, along with the PB Blaster and the Seafoam treatments. She fires right up cold and seems to be smoothing out a bit compared to before all this started. I have not had a chance to see what kind of compression I'm getting on no. 6, but I'm having new shocks put on when I get back from vacation and will have the shop do a diagnosis. MMO is in the tank now and hopefully that will keep the valve guides nice and happy, going forward. Gone too is the hesitation when I rev her up. I will at some point have the local flatty guy do a complete inspection (the right way) and let me know if a valve job or more is in order at some point. It does not smoke and the oil looks like it just came out of the can, so I suspect the rings are good but who knows how long that cylinder was dead and driven. I doubt much as like I have said, the 80 year old guy I got the car from did not drive the car for I would guess a year or more, due to his failing health. Time will tell at this point. I'm not driving it until I get a compression test as I want to be sure all is working as it should, when I do.