Ebay Town Car

[Steve Wastler]

Will there be a Fordbarn member to be the new owner?

No link, let your fingers do the walking.....

[Al 29Tudor]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-A...m=201654558853

[Bob Johnson]

Look carefully at the pictures.

Bob

[Barber31]

That sure is some limited rear view visibility.

[Vern]

"Look carefully at the pictures"
Bob ought to know!
But why no photos of the unique Town Car interior?

[todd3131]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

How can you tell it has been made up from a fordoor?

[Mike V. Florida]

Bob Johnson has a link on his site but it no longer works;

http://www.towncar.modelahouse.com/

But here are some pictures on his site;

http://www.modelahouse.com/cgi-bin/p...s?towncars.txt

Here is s thread that has some details to look for;

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46693

[mercman from oz]

Here is a picture of that lovely 1929 Ford Model A Town Car that is presently for sale on eBay. What a lovely car.

[ronn]

thanks for posting Steve- this will be a once in a ten year event...........



Look carefully at the pictures.

so Bob, what are we looking for?

[C26Pinelake]

Why all the innuendo ? Why not just say what is not authentic? Why all the referrals to Bob Johnson. Wayne

[Jim/GA]

I took the attached photo at the 2008 Joint MAFCA/MARC International Meet in Dallas. A beautiful car. I don't remember the name of the owner. Out of Colorado, as I recall. Steve may know his name. A fantastic car. Click on the thumbnail for a full size view.

[WTSHNN]

For the money this seller probably expects this car to sell for you would think they would have invested a few more minutes' time to take and post better pictures. Seems to me a seller would want to highlight the rare details of a real Town Car through images to clear up any concern as to the authenticity of the vehicle. Instead they settle for wide angle shots showing the whole car and no engine/interior pics? There are a lot of "fake" Town Cars out there these days, the fakes sell for decent money. Real Town Cars sell for real good money.

Could just be an inexperienced ebay seller.

I'd encourage seriously interested buyers to look at the pics on Bob Johnson' site that were linked above.

-Tim C

[Bob Johnson]

I have known about this car before the current owner purchased it. Look at the front door hinges, the partition, the cowl band, ....

Bob

[barry022]

Not sure what you're trying to tell us. Is the fact that numerous features are being pointed out an indication they are not restored to perfection as the pictures indicate or something else?

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Bob Johnson

I have known about this car before the current owner purchased it. Look at the front door hinges, the partition, the cowl band, ....

Bob

Bob,

Please be more specific on your observations...some of us have no clue as to what to see that is or is not specific to the Town Car itself.

Thanks.

Pluck

[Rancho Deluxe]

Many things are wrong, Look at the right front door lock assy, Now look at the pictures of Bob Johnsons pictures & see the lock assy. in the rear door.. That's just for starters..

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA

I took the attached photo at the 2008 Joint MAFCA/MARC International Meet in Dallas. A beautiful car. I don't remember the name of the owner. Out of Colorado, as I recall. Steve may know his name. A fantastic car. Click on the thumbnail for a full size view.

Is it just the picture. Where the back of the body curves around to the back looks like way to sharp of a curve.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by forever4

Compare the upper hinge.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by George Miller

Is it just the picture. Where the back of the body curves around to the back looks like way to sharp of a curve.

It is probably just this picture and the angle the photo was taken from. The back corners are kind of square-ish, though, compared to Fordor Sedans.

Note the lock on the rear passenger door in the picture I posted above.

Note the rear bumper is 2 pieces, not 1, in the photo I posted. Not shown is that this car in Dallas also had 2 sidemount spares (and the correct black trunk rack).

In the photo I posted, note the flow of the bead on the side as it goes to the back and meets with the bead across the back panel. Note the flow of the bead up the corner and then across the back. Such a smooth continuous curve. Beautiful.

I had to reduce the resolution of the picture I posted, compared to my original, in order to post it here (Ford Barn restrictions) and I have additional higher-resolution pictures of this car. You can really see the details in them, if anyone would like copies of them (PM me with you email address).

This car I saw in Dallas (photo above) was a true museum quality piece, authentically restored with painstaking attention to detail.

[ronn]

Note the rear bumper is 2 pieces, not 1.

towncars came with and without sidemounts- so rear bumpers could be one or two piece........no?

[Bob Johnson]

Jim,

Are you referring to the car you saw in 2008? Not the car in the Ebay ad. Please make this clear otherwise some may think you are saying the Ebay car is "a true museum quality piece, authentically restored with painstaking attention to detail.''

I do not think the Ebay car is an original Towncar. Just my opinion.

Bob

[Steve Plucker]

I would like to think it is Henry Ford's "prototype" Town Car before the real deal...but not!

Now wouldn't that be something if it was?!

Hmmmmmm.

Pluck

[ronn]

interesting observation Pluck

I would like to see the complete interior-there would be some telling evidence there as well..........

[Synchro909]

It's currently at a little over $US33K which is about $43K Australian. Would you believe there is a guy here trying to sell a '31 S/W for $A95K. Maybe he confused his phone number with the price.
Oh, and it's still "Wrong hand drive".
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1931-FORD...oAAOSwIgNXntsd

[Bob Johnson]

Here is a comparison of an original Town car rear panel and the one on Ebay.

[Bob C]

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Originally Posted by Synchro909

It's currently at a little over $US33K which is about $43K Australian. Would you believe there is a guy here trying to sell a '31 S/W for $A95K. Maybe he confused his phone number with the price.
Oh, and it's still "Wrong hand drive".
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1931-FORD...oAAOSwIgNXntsd

The high price is probably because of the rare color coordinated steering wheel.

Bob

[DougVieyra]

Timothy Kelly's post: "A few words about Town Cars"is well worth the read. I recommend all who read this post, also read Tim post.

[mercman from oz]

here is an enlarged picture of this Town Car that was previously posted.

[Glenn C.]

Helpful answers that I receive here, might save me from taking a another holiday.....tsk, tsk.

1. Did not Model T Ford make a Town Car ? In looking at the hinge thumbnail pic as posted by Bob C. above, I would have thought the Model A Town Car would have used the same hinge design as used on all the production Model A cars of that time.

2. As per the pictures of the ebay Model A Town Car, are not the two post mirrors true mirrors genuine to the town car only, and if they are correct style mirrors, and the vehicle is not genuine, where is the car that these mirrors came from ?

3. The rear window appears to be of smaller dimensions than what was used for the Briggs Body Fordors, which would be correct.

[Bob Johnson]

Glen.

1) The top front hinge on a Model A Town Car is unique. Half of the hinge is part of the door post. The other half is part of the door jam. Both the front door post and the door jam are aluminum.

2) The mirrors used on the Model A Town Car were not unique to Ford. Other car manufacturers used the same mirror. Also note that the Ford Town Car came with only one outside mirror. The car on Ebay has 2. I have made reproduction Town Car mirrors myself.

3) The back structure of the Fordor can easily be modified for a smaller window. If you look at my post yesterday with the picture of the backs of the Ebay car and an original you can see differences. Note the corner trim pieces on either side of the back. The original is an aluminum "angle iron" like piece which is flat and square.

Bob

[Glenn C.]

Thanks Bob! The wife is now happy again.....even though I informed her that we were not making a trip

[glenn in camino]

I just read all the posts re. the town car on ebay, but it doesn't how to tell a recreation from a real one. Is there a body number or something else to identify the real thing. Remember, if it's really valuable, some smarty will figure out how to make an exact copy. There must be some details that are really hard to reproduce.

[DougVieyra]

glenn in camino:

Aah, I was talking with Joan Crawford (that is her pictured in Bob Johnson's Post # 29 photo) the other day (she got an early one, before they hit the dealer's Showroom Floor) and she said there are a number of unique items that easily distinguish 'an exact copy' from an original Ford Factory Town Car. But she could only remember a few of the items. And those items that she did remember and told to me, I have forgotten already.

BUT, I bet those 14 or so owners of original Ford-made Town Cars can chip in a few select items for us to chew over. Unfortunately, unless you are the one who restored the car - to be able to get into the intimate 'nooks and crannies' - I suspect that many of today's Town Car owners may be limited to what they can contribute. While easy to distinguish the Town Car from 'all those other ordinary Fords' it may not be so easy, even for a Town Car owner to tell an original from a meticulous 'exact copy'.

So it is with some anticipation that I too await for some solid differentiating details to emerge from the question you pose. I know that Marco was intimately involved with one some years back, and he might chime in if he sees Glen's query.

[Bob Johnson]

It really depends on the copy. Each copy is different. Each one will have different areas that are not exact. This depends on the person making the copy, how well they have researched, what items are important to them and how much time/money they are willing to spend. All copies I have seen started off as Briggs Fodors/Town sedans. Towncars share some parts with Briggs Fordors. The rear doors are basically the same. The front door and cowl are similar but have many differences. The front post on the front doors is aluminum. There is a single "step" at the reveal on a Towncar and a double step on a Fordor. The front door post on the cowl is also aluminum and the inside part of the top hinge is part of the aluminum cowl post. The outside part of the top door hinge is also aluminum and is part of the door post. The windshield does not have slide arms on the sides. It has a knob in the center of the dash rail that operates a "scissor" mechanism which opens the windshield. The front door straps are real leather and are held with metal brackets. The seat springs are individual pocketed. The partition has many unique features. There are tw0 flat windows in the center that slide. There are also two curved windows on either side of the partition. The strip that separates the flat form the curved glass is aluminum. There is a knob in the center top of the back of the front seat to lock the sliding glass. There is a clock mounted on the back of the header above the partition. The arm rests in the back seat store a cigar lighter, ash tray and on the other side a vanity case. The rear window and the partition glass do not have metal frames. The rear corners of the body have aluminum trim pieces which cover the joint where the side and back panels meet. These are some of the more obvious details that are unique to the Towncar. As Tim said there are some copies that have fooled the "experts". There are also some that are easy to spot.

I am not trying to put down any Towncar copies. Some are very nice cars and would be nice to own. But Towncars which were always Towncars will fetch a higher price than copies. In some cases twice as much. I would not like to see someone buy a car thinking it is factory produced Towncar then find out latter that it is a copy. If one were to pay $25,000 for a Model A Roadster thinking it was a factory build car. Then find out it is a Shay reproduction, they may not be happy. With a Towncar the price could be 5 times that or more. That is serious money to most Model A owners.

[Mike V. Florida]

I think we can agree that it is beautifully done and would make a great car to own, recreation or restoration.

[Randy in ca]

Curious about the different sizes of the rear window - all pictures (even those of other cars on Bob's web page) seem to show that window a lot smaller than the one on Bob's own car (?).

-

[Bob Johnson]

My car had the rear window replaced with a larger one by the previous owner.

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by Bob Johnson

My car had the rear window replaced with a larger one by the previous owner.

OK, looks like they did a good job and I can totally understand why - the stock windows look like they might as well not even be there!!

[DougVieyra]

Mike - post # 34: "I think we can agree that it is beautifully done and would make a great car to own, recreation or restoration."
_________________________________

A loud agreement and applause from me on that sentiment Mike ! I assumed from the beginning that the car was a masterful and quality recreation - AND that the builder had done an OUTSTANDING job in every respect. The car is simply BEAUTIFUL !

It may BE an original, or it may not be - to me it really does not matter. I just think that the car is a real jewel. I can afford to be so cavalier because I am not clunking down $50 or $60 or . . . . grand. If I were, THEN I would be REALLY concerned about its authenticity and pedigree. But now, as I am not, I am only looking at the quality of the restoration and if a recreation, an additional admiration on the person who did such an outstanding job on the body work and finishing details.

[eystein]

Could have been a rough car to start with that had to have a lot of work done to it.
-Front door top hinges could have been cracked/worn aluminium pieces replaced by standard hinges during restoration.
-What I see as different on the rear panel is that there are no joints between the aluminium angle bracket and the beads in the panel, and also that the bead on the quarter panel is not sharply pointed at the rear corner. This could be inaccurate work with body solder during restoration.

What seems to indicate authenticity is :
-The car has the angled corners at the rear.
-Single reveal on the front door
- I cannot see any windshield slides on this car

It could very well be a replica, but is so, it seems to be better than most others

[eystein]

Anyone asked the seller for interior photos as indicated by the seller in the ad ?

[ronn]

seller pulled the ad-so either sold or he read this thread and...............?

one of the biggest tell tale signs is the divider glass inside. both end pieces should have curvature. very hard to duplicate that when making a copy.

also the question begs, who built a towncar of their own when they were originally made, not wanting to pay Henrys price?
This wasnt an inexpensive car new............. I am sure this happened overseas on more then one occasion.

[Franchise_24]

So did it come to the conclusion that it was not a real town car?

[DougVieyra]

Franchise_24
Re: Ebay Town Car
"So did it come to the conclusion that it was not a real town car?"
____________________________________________

With the limited information we have, there is too little evidence to indicate - in a definitive fashion - either way. Arm chair analysts with only a few photos and scant details, are at a sever disadvantage in giving anything more than and 'arm chair' judgement.

[Glenn C.]

In my opinion, if any of the Fordbarners contacted the seller directly with what evidence that had been posted, with pertinent questions directed to the vehicle for sale, it is probably possible the seller pulled the sale from Ebay out of sheer embarrassment, or realized the big $$$ was just not going to happen. Don't you think a person who thought he was purchasing the real McCoy would be somewhat annoyed if he paid someone of expertize, or drove even across town, to find out it was a facsimile, and especially if he wasn't told that in advance ?

All I can say is; Thanks again Bob J. for the pics and your input. Lets move on.