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Old 12-07-2019, 12:29 PM   #1
codeplus
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Default oil pump

I have a new rebuilt flathead 8BA that an old timer built for me who has since passed. I had oil pressure when I first ran it and now nothing. Was running it working on it and it made some weird noises so I shut it down. No oil pressure. Can I remove this pump from just removing the oil pan? Thanks, Dave
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: oil pump

From your description, it is likely the engine will have to come out anyway. When oil pressure suddenly drops when the engine is running, bearing damage is likely. In some cases the pipe linking the pickup to the pump comes loose and allows the input to drop. The pipe is press fitted into the pump. We secure the joint by brazing when installing.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:25 PM   #3
codeplus
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Default Re: oil pump

I pulled the inspection cover off and the pickup seems fine and in place. Brand new motor.
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Old 12-07-2019, 01:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: oil pump

If it's easy to remove the oil pan , go for it , the pump will come out with one more bolt .
If you have to remove front end stuff , just pull the motor .
First I would mount a mechanic an gauge and crank the motor , no spark to check for oil pressure. Then I would drain the oil into a clean container and look for metal or silver paint . If any exist, pull motor .
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: oil pump

I did install a mechanical gauge,nothing. I pulled the cover for the oil pickup access and ran my finger along the bottom of the pan. very gritty,fine pieces of metal as they stick to a magnet. This motor doesn`t have 5 minutes of run time on it.
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:09 PM   #6
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Default Re: oil pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeplus View Post
I did install a mechanical gauge,nothing. I pulled the cover for the oil pickup access and ran my finger along the bottom of the pan. very gritty,fine pieces of metal as they stick to a magnet. This motor doesn`t have 5 minutes of run time on it.
It is going to have to be removed and opened up. Something is definitely gone array inside!
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: oil pump

That`s what I was afraid of,what a pain.So close to having this 29 roadster done. Anyone know any flathead mechanics in Minnesota?
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: oil pump

Dave is an excellent flathead builder. I think he is in the Rochester area.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:40 PM   #9
Bored&Stroked
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Default Re: oil pump

Given that you've started/ran it multiple times . . . my guess is that the bearings will now be toast - any maybe the crank journals as well. You need to figure out the cause of the issue - can be a range of things:

1) The oil pump could have an issue - something mechanically failed.
2) The pressure relief valve may have stuck open - but usually you'll still see some pressure.
3) The little gear on the back of the cam that drives the pump may have come loose (only has a too-small flat on it to keep the gear from turning). I typically tack-weld the gear onto the end of the cam - and/or roll-pin it.
4) Depending on the crank, I've seen the rod-journal clean-out plugs get blown out . . . causing a major open leak. This is most common on the Merc cranks - as they have big clean-out plugs.

I'd start with the oil-pump . . . then see what you can find from there.

Good luck!
B&S

Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 12-08-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: oil pump

Flatjack9, Do you have any contact info for Dave?
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: oil pump

Bored and stroked, I was surprized to find how dirty the oil was after not even five minutes of run time ,if that. The old builder had to miss something,to bad he passed away last year.
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Old 12-07-2019, 11:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: oil pump

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Flatjack9, Do you have any contact info for Dave?
I'll check tomorrow.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: oil pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Given that you've started/ran it multiple times . . . my guess I that the bearings will now be toast - any maybe the crank journals as well. You need to figure out the cause of the issue - can be a range of things:

1) The oil pump could have an issue - something mechanically failed.
2) The pressure relief valve may have stuck open - but usually you'll still see some pressure.
3) The little gear on the back of the cam that drives the pump may have come loose (only has a too-small flat on it to keep the gear from turning). I typically tack-weld the gear onto the end of the cam - and/or roll-pin it.
4) Depending on the crank, I've seen the rod-journal clean-out plugs get blown out . . . causing a major open leak. This is most common on the Merc cranks - as they have big clean-out plugs.


I'd start with the oil-pump . . . then see what you can find from there.

Good luck!
B&S
Number #3 can also be checked by taking motor out and removing flywheel/PP and clutch. Doesn’t need a total tear down to figure it out. It’s odd, not all cams have this and the new replacement gears are junk. Agree that it needs to be pinned or tacked once out.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:12 AM   #14
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Default Re: oil pump

Quote:
Originally Posted by codeplus View Post
Bored and stroked, I was surprized to find how dirty the oil was after not even five minutes of run time ,if that. The old builder had to miss something,to bad he passed away last year.
Maybe this one last engine build . . . pushed him over the edge???
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:15 AM   #15
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Default Re: oil pump

I would start first things first.
Pull the pan,,,,look for a missing clean out plug on the crank.
If it blew one out,,it would make an unusual noise as it was bouncing around off the spinning assembly.
If that is it,,,maybe it is not too bad.
You could start pulling the main caps and checking the bearings.
Then the rod caps and so on.
Being the engine was running only a few seconds and not under a load,,,maybe it didn’t hurt anything ?
If not the crank plug,,,then the oil pump,,,remove it,,,check it for any problems.
Then if not there,,,,the drive on the cam is next.
And you could still pull the cam without pulling the engine.
A lot of work,,,yes,,,but possible.

Maybe you will get lucky,,,I hope so.

Tommy
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Old 12-08-2019, 09:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: oil pump

If it has the magnetic particles that you speak of there is no magic fix left,take it out find the problem and repair it. A picture would help.


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Old 12-08-2019, 05:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: oil pump

Question do you have the external oil filter conversion on the engine? Reason i ask if the oil lines to the remote filter are installed incorrectly the engine will become toast in short order.
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Old 12-08-2019, 07:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: oil pump

Sorry to hear .. I feel your pain
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:28 PM   #19
codeplus
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Default Re: oil pump

Ronnieroadster,Yes I do have the beehive oil filter. Pressure in on the bottom and out the side. Pressure line in from rear of block right?
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: oil pump

Some info here


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...beehive+filter


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