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Old 11-25-2019, 09:43 PM   #1
CrownVic55
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Default T85 transmission, T86 differences

On the T86 it looks like the speedometer gear meshes on the bottom of the drive gear and on the T 85 it looks like it meshes on the top. Does this mean that the 86 speedometer gear won't work in the 85? Seems like it would be turning the opposite direction if it even meshes. Any work around for this?
Thanks,
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Old 11-25-2019, 09:51 PM   #2
40cpe
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

I have no experience with mixing them, but it makes no sense that they would not interchange since both transmissions came in the same model cars.

Last edited by 40cpe; 11-26-2019 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 11-26-2019, 10:11 AM   #3
rotorwrench
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

They are completely different transmissions but some stuff is similar. The Ford parts books can be consulted to see if the two have the same part number. The T85 was mostly used in Lincoln cars until Ford started getting larger displacement engines in the later 50s. The T86 was the lighter duty of the two.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-26-2019 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 11-26-2019, 12:53 PM   #4
dmsfrr
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Double check the pitch of the speedo drive gear teeth inside the trans.
Something in a lost memory thinks there may have been right & left handed versions.

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Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-26-2019 at 10:11 PM. Reason: typing on a small screen
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Old 11-26-2019, 08:33 PM   #5
paul2748
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

There are two different pitches, but I believe these came in the 1957 and later style gear and may have been because of the 4 speeds that came out in the 60's.



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Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Double check the pitch of the speedo drive gear teeth inside the trans.
Something in a lost memory thinks there may have have been right & left handed versions.
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Old 11-30-2019, 05:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

There are two different pitches on the drive gears. The T85 I'm wanting to use in my 55 is from a 57 Ford. The T85 was used in the 56 Bird with 312 I was told so either it has a different drive gear than the 57 transmission and a different tail shaft to get the driven gear on the bottom, or the bird would have had to have a special speedometer. Don't think the speedometer itself was different-that would have been a problem when replacing parts. May have to keep the T86. Any ideas welcome.
Thanks,
Ben
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:02 PM   #7
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Cool Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Here is the problem ...

FORD does not give an an ID Chart for 50's transmission usage (49/59 MPC) as it does in the subsequent MPC (1960-1964) so as to actually derive correct service parts. If an earlier than 1957, most likely the drive and driven gear (along with cable housing) are different from a 1957/design.

Good eye on the gear placement (HI - LO) of differing trans. There is also L & R to consider. Let me see if I can nail this down and get back.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...ings_trans.htm
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Last edited by KULTULZ; 12-05-2019 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Usual Dumba$$ Mistakes
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:09 AM   #8
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Post Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

The 49/59 Car MPC does list # PRODUCTION IDENTIFICATION MARKING

View the Ill's below -

The 60/64 Car MPC begins using ID TAGS along with stamping ID's. Cataloging was also much improved.

There has to be more info somewhere. It is not differentiated in SERVICE MANUALS. FORD SERVICE had to release trans assembly/usage charts.

BW259
BW T-86
BW T-85/89 - VOID

EDIT -

Now I am causing confusion. Forget the T-89 as it was a LT TRANS.

BW T-85
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Last edited by KULTULZ; 12-05-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:33 PM   #9
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Post Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

OK...

Everything I have found so far points to BW only. I have not come across any FORD designed trans (1954-1959).

BW 259 - LD
BW T-86 - MD
BW T-85 - HD
All available w/ OD

Even the later 2 15/15in 3S (early sixties) appears to be a BW T-85.

The 1961/ BW T-10 4/S

The later 3.03 3/S Syncro and F/4/S are FORD T&C

The 2.77 not known yet and the 4/ Dagenheim was British.

Visual ID By Case Appearance Below -
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Old 12-05-2019, 10:17 PM   #10
CrownVic55
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Good stuff, KULTULZ. Got everything figured out now but the speedometer gear and cable. I know I need a 57 gear to drive off the top of the drive gear but don't know if that gear will work with the 55 cable and housing. Books show a retainer clip for the 57 type gear and housing looks different in picture.
Thanks for your support and I hope the limp goes away.
Ben
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:17 AM   #11
KULTULZ
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Post Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic55 View Post

Got everything figured out now but the speedometer gear and cable. I know I need a 57 gear to drive off the top of the drive gear but don't know if that gear will work with the 55 cable and housing. Books show a retainer clip for the 57 type gear and housing looks different in picture.
FORD changed cable design in 1957. To use the 57 trans, you will need to (or have done) modify the cable housing trans end. There are shops that specialize in this.

Someone posted here a later cable that can be used. Maybe they are following.

Quote:
I hope the limp goes away.

Ben

No, I think she is going to stay ...
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I flat told her that it was no way to run a cat-house and hung the phone up ...

Sorta like calling SUICIDE HOTLINE and being put on hold ...


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Old 12-07-2019, 09:11 AM   #12
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Post Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Quote:
If an earlier than 1957, most likely the drive and driven gear (along with cable housing) are different from a 1957/design.

Good eye on the gear placement (HI - LO) of differing trans. There is also L & R to consider.

Below are Ill's of under and over cable location and the type of gears used pre-57 and 57/.

Now the question, is your present trans an original install?
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Be advised that the SEXUAL ASSAULT HOTLINE (as found in the telephone book) is not an actual dating service.

I called and inquired as to the fee(s) for a SEXUAL ASSAULT and that woman lit into me ...

I flat told her that it was no way to run a cat-house and hung the phone up ...

Sorta like calling SUICIDE HOTLINE and being put on hold ...


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Old 12-07-2019, 11:45 AM   #13
CrownVic55
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Transmission is not original. After 60 years of ownership and many miles there have been many transmissions. Original was a Fordomatic, several 3 speeds and currently is the T86 OD. The spedo cable was the same for all transmissions. The 57 T85 is different and I need to make the cable compatible with it. Guess I will order a 57 cable assembly and see what I need to alter to make it work at the speedometer end. Ben
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Old 12-07-2019, 12:33 PM   #14
KULTULZ
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

Before you do anything, talk to these guys - https://www.speedoservice.com/speedometers.html

For all you know, the cable housing may have already been modified/changed over.
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*** BOARD ANNOUNCEMENT ***

Be advised that the SEXUAL ASSAULT HOTLINE (as found in the telephone book) is not an actual dating service.

I called and inquired as to the fee(s) for a SEXUAL ASSAULT and that woman lit into me ...

I flat told her that it was no way to run a cat-house and hung the phone up ...

Sorta like calling SUICIDE HOTLINE and being put on hold ...


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Old 12-07-2019, 12:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

The key thing is how long it is and which side the cable mounts to the transmission on. Cables up to 60/64 inches are available for either fit as far as I know. I suspect yours may have the end without the tapered socket that fits into the tail housing. Yours likely needs the straight type like in this link.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-1957-19....c100005.m1851
Just be aware that there are likey a clockwise and counter clockwise application.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:59 PM   #16
CrownVic55
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Default Re: T85 transmission, T86 differences

For all you know, the cable housing may have already been modified/changed over.[/QUOTE]

Cable has not been modified. It is the standard tapered end that the speedometer gear inserts into. It also fits the T85 transmission but it looks like it is too far to the drive gear and the driven gear could fall off and into the housing. I don't have a 57 type gear yet to try. The pitch is reverse in the T85 so the 49 to 56 gears won't mesh. I have a gear ordered and will see how it works with the old styly cable housing. Thanks to you, Rotorwrench and others for all the info. Ben
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