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Old 11-17-2019, 12:46 PM   #1
Ronnieroadster
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Default 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

My son and I have been working on 32 Tudor sedan body which needs a lot of help along the lower areas of the body. The rear quarters in front of the wheel arch patch panels we have a no wheres near accurate.
First the overall length is to long from the body door opening edge to the wheel well the reveals are to big and each of the steps that locate in the door jamb area are to deep and also to long in other words they are pretty much useless. Its been a while since we got these panels so its unknown who made these pieces of junk. Would anyone have a suggestion as to where some more accurate panels can be found? Some adjustments for fitting is no problem for us so anything closer to accurate is what were looking for.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Brookville??


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Old 11-17-2019, 01:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

You might try United Pacific since they do the 5W body. There is a Co in Ontario Canada that makes patch panels as I got some for a 32 PU body.Don't know if the do other '32 body styles.The patch panels that all vendors sold in the 90's are made by Carpenter and stamped flat and crap.I had a friend fix a tudor in the same spot as you.He had to do a lot of massaging to get them to look decent.EMS makes patches but don't think for '32 but again stamped flat.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Tom Bay
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Old 11-17-2019, 05:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

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Originally Posted by Krylon32 View Post
Tom Bay



Any more info on Tom Bay? Anyone do a Tudor body recently?
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Tom has a restoration and parts business in Arkansas City Kansas but I can't remember it's name?

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Old 11-17-2019, 06:18 PM   #7
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Its called Tom Bay
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

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Its called Tom Bay

Ronnie....Apparently, Tom Bay is the owner of R&J Enterprises in Arkansas City, Ks. Try this contact info:


R&J Enterprises
6034 302 Rd Arkansas City KS
620-441-0032
Fax: 620-307-6086
tbay@cox.net


DD
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

V8 You nailed it, I'm getting forgetful?
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:41 PM   #10
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Tom is a friend of mine (more my wife, they went to collage together). Great guy and great parts. Mostly 33 and 34 parts, but some 32.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:56 PM   #11
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Great Thanks everyone I will contact Tom and ask if he has what we need or an idea who makes a good quality part we can work with.
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"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Hey Ronnie - if you don't find some good news, give me a call. I've found that there are very few patch panels made that are worth a crap - almost nothing is correct. The situation goes from bad to worse once you get away from roadsters and coupes.

Consider having some hand made to fit your body - is what I've had to do. Give me a call if you want to chat about it.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:10 AM   #13
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Let us know the outcome, how well they fit and so on when you find them.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Placing the order with R&J today explained our displeasure with the oversize crap items we already have Tom assured us these items will be good he also makes the lower rear panel for the sedan body with the correct radius thats another item extremely hard to find in the correct shape including the radius needed. Years ago received one from Spadaro that was completely useless {flat} so I sent it back. When the panels arrive i will post an update for sure.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 12-07-2019, 03:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Heres the follow up on the patch panels for our sedan project we just received. The panels were purchased from Tom Bay R&J enterprises Arkansas city KS so heres the report. What we received is the exact same worthless panels we already had! Now upon talking with Tom when placing the order he reassured us his panel was not the same old useless over size crap we already had. BUT he LIED its the exact same panel his part number written on the panel QP-32T is the exact same number written on the junk we already had! What a waste of time and money. This crap is WAY oversize SO BIG the section that sits in the door jamb is to LONG and where its needed to go into the door jamb its to DEEP. This junk is so bad you could not even do a hack job of just laying it on top of the remaining body and just welding it on top of the surface the panel is so big it wont work that way even if you wanted to just mud it up after welding { which is not how were doing this project} So now its time to cut and trim these horrible panels removing the oversize material and slowly welding things back together we now have it cut into four pieces what fun. So theres my report on the quality of the Tom Bay panels we received.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

If Tom's Parts are now junk I guess the only alternative is to make ones own panels from scratch. I think he needs to be told of your problems.
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Old 12-07-2019, 04:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Hey Ronnie - would love to see some pictures of what you're talking about. It is very hard to visualize the actual issue . . . maybe pictures would help us all. If you need any super expert metal work - just ping me. Sounds like you're doing everything yourselves - which is cool, but my good friend 'Flop' does exceptional metal work.
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Old 12-07-2019, 05:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Sorry to hear that Ronnie, I have used a lot of Tom's metal work and been happy with everything so far. Some of the ones I have used do need a bit of minor twicking, but nothing major.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

As per ronnieroadster
I bought 34 panels from them several years ago and tossed them
Same old same old crap everyone try’s to pass off
Not even close
Also some of the stuff SAR used to sell (not sure of their status) looked like they bought them from Bay
Truth is to get them right you have to find a good metal former and get them to make them for you
IMHO
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Hey Ronnie - would love to see some pictures of what you're talking about. It is very hard to visualize the actual issue . . . maybe pictures would help us all. If you need any super expert metal work - just ping me. Sounds like you're doing everything yourselves - which is cool, but my good friend 'Flop' does exceptional metal work.
Hi Dale I might be able to take some pictures to show how bad these panels are my son is actually taking the lead on doing the metal work with my help along the way. Heck I actually machined a two step die to help make the radius and steps more exacting prior to buying this junk we just received. I also made the dies for our bead roller so we can make the wheel well bead which no one reproduces. So realistically were now becoming our own metal former's Id rather be getting the next flathead underway for Speedweek but its on hold until this project is completed. Not crazy about doing body work like this but I will say its rewarding knowing were doing it our-self's and learning more as we go along. So it wont be long before another hot rod Deuce powered by a supercharged Ford flathead will be on the road.
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"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.

Last edited by Ronnieroadster; 12-07-2019 at 07:49 PM.
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:46 PM   #21
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylon32 View Post
If Tom's Parts are now junk I guess the only alternative is to make ones own panels from scratch. I think he needs to be told of your problems.






When ordering these parts as i wrote he was told about the junk we already had his words were ours are better there not the same that was not true. Im not wasting my time telling him about the problem I believe he already knows.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 12-07-2019, 08:56 PM   #22
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Ronnie....I don't have much to offer here except to say that I'm SO sorry that I supplied you with this sorry, jerko-liar's contact info back in Post #8. It's a cryin' shame that such an exorbitant number of these worthless suppliers have resorted to the distribution of any kind of friggen' crapola that they can stuff into a box, and to bend you over at the waist and feed you the big lie about it on top of everything! THIS is why that old adage about "Made in America" doesn't necessarily mean squat any more. You're obviously a guy that doesn't let "small" challenges slow you down much. You and your son WILL overcome this annoying setback!! We would all appreciate pictures as y'all overcome this fiasco. DD
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Old 12-07-2019, 09:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Ronnie....I don't have much to offer here except to say that I'm SO sorry that I supplied you with this sorry, jerko-liar's contact info back in Post #8. It's a cryin' shame that such an exorbitant number of these worthless suppliers have resorted to the distribution of any kind of friggen' crapola that they can stuff into a box, and to bend you over at the waist and feed you the big lie about it on top of everything! THIS is why that old adage about "Made in America" doesn't necessarily mean squat any more. You're obviously a guy that doesn't let "small" challenges slow you down much. You and your son WILL overcome this annoying setback!! We would all appreciate pictures as y'all overcome this fiasco. DD



No worry's you had no idea this would be the outcome and in the end Im getting more time working with my son on something were learning to to do together. Heck maybe after this i might feel better doing body work if needed something up to now I have tried to avoid. As they say if you can learn something new each day thats a good thing were certainly learning some new things for sure doing this.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 12-08-2019, 08:28 AM   #24
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Not sure where you are in CT but you could take a class at Proshaper and learn how to make your own.

https://www.proshaper.com/coachbuild...aping-classes/
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Or find someone locally with the equipment and talent to make it. They are out there.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

So crazy these crap parts are still out there. I wonder if someone would contact guys Bobby Walden or Flop if they'd be interested in making some.

The metal work these two and many others guys are doing is nothing short of amazing. Seems like there is a need for some quality '32 sedan panels; especially seeing the prices of '32 3 & 5 windows. Seems to reason why sedans are so hot right now.
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

I'm sure sorry for recommending him. As I said above it's been some years but we used his panels for a project in the past. Maybe the body shop just threw his away and never said anything?
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Old 12-09-2019, 08:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
So crazy these crap parts are still out there. I wonder if someone would contact guys Bobby Walden or Flop if they'd be interested in making some.

The metal work these two and many others guys are doing is nothing short of amazing. Seems like there is a need for some quality '32 sedan panels; especially seeing the prices of '32 3 & 5 windows. Seems to reason why sedans are so hot right now.
I believe Flop will only make panels he installs. It is expensive to make by hand and it may need some tweaking on installation. This way they control the whole process. Last I remember he is a one man operation with a back log of work.

If you take the class at pro shaper you can negotiate a deal to use the shop for your project. For like $25 an hour you have access to a lot of tools and expertise.
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Old 12-09-2019, 07:52 PM   #29
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

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I believe Flop will only make panels he installs. It is expensive to make by hand and it may need some tweaking on installation. This way they control the whole process. Last I remember he is a one man operation with a back log of work.

If you take the class at pro shaper you can negotiate a deal to use the shop for your project. For like $25 an hour you have access to a lot of tools and expertise.
Hey Frank - you have it about right. A lot of his stuff in one-off custom . . . so unless he has the car/body in his mitts, he really can't make the panel or ensure that it fits.

Then, there is the installation part of it -- one can't underestimate what it takes to butt-weld panels together, know how to hammer and dolly welds, know how to shrink/stretch, etc.. There is a lot of "magic" that does into getting metal to do what you want it too. And there are quite a few times when you have to rework/redo the panel to get it right. So - it is time-consuming and typically costly to pay for "custom" metal work - at least to get quality work.
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Old 12-25-2019, 12:27 PM   #30
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

I bought a pair of wheel well patch panels for a 34 coupe from Tom bay. They were absolute junk!
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Old 12-25-2019, 07:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

All these are why nice clean bodies are rare and expensive now. Try to find good original pieces if you can. Tom Bay and other vendors are usually at the big Pate swap meet at Ft Worth in late April. Try to attend and inspect their panels in person.
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Old 12-26-2019, 08:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

I gave my son a 32 Tudor that was in TOUGH shape. I would have scrapped it ! Found a fellow who brought it back! The first time I went to see it after it was picked up from the blaster the fellow said I couldn"t come into the shop!! Afraid I would ha heart attack. He had cut the body in 1/2 !! It is now done and looks great!!! He enjoys restoring a car that is in tough shape! Stays busy and is booked way ahead. Picks & choosing what he will do.. There are people ne won't work for. He is a one man shop. Great guy
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Old 12-26-2019, 09:58 AM   #33
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

I hammer out my own stuff when no one makes a decent reproduction. It is a skill set that takes some time to learn. I pitch a few pieces in the scrap heap after initial stabs at it but less and less over time. I wished I had all the fancy stuff like a Pull Max and a few other high dollar machines but maybe someday. Check sites like Metal Meet and others and look for a good metal former/fabricator that's close to you if you don't want to do it yourself. Keep in mind that this type of work always comes with a price. If it's not available, a person doesn't have too many choices.
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Old 12-26-2019, 12:12 PM   #34
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

I have taken a couple of Ron Covell metal working classes and if there are any near you I would highly recommend one if you are interested in metalworking and like me, was slightly better then novice to begin with. Using common tools in one class he made a 3/4 size 36 Ford rear fender from flat pieces of metal, the other he made a 32 grille shell using mainly a bead roller. He pre cuts the flat metal and since he is travelling, makes them smaller then the original part due to shipping/airline considerations. He showed us how to use a Pull Max but it is just a way faster way to do something you can by hand. Like anything, experience is the key and you can't expect to do his quality work the first time out but with practice you could make something relatively simple like a 32 quarter patch panel I think fairly quickly with tools most have. Getting AKDQ (aluminum killed) draw grade sheet metal to begin with is a huge help.
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Old 12-26-2019, 02:49 PM   #35
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

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I have taken a couple of Ron Covell metal working classes and if there are any near you I would highly recommend one if you are interested in metalworking and like me, was slightly better then novice to begin with. Using common tools in one class he made a 3/4 size 36 Ford rear fender from flat pieces of metal, the other he made a 32 grille shell using mainly a bead roller. He pre cuts the flat metal and since he is travelling, makes them smaller then the original part due to shipping/airline considerations. He showed us how to use a Pull Max but it is just a way faster way to do something you can by hand. Like anything, experience is the key and you can't expect to do his quality work the first time out but with practice you could make something relatively simple like a 32 quarter patch panel I think fairly quickly with tools most have. Getting AKDQ (aluminum killed) draw grade sheet metal to begin with is a huge help.



Were actually past the issue of the patch panels my son did an amazing job with the poorly made stuff we had all it took was cutting them into four pieces and with a die I machined stamped what we needed. No need for a class we figured this out. Next project just completed was the reveal around the fenders most of the inner fenders were gone and the rust was high into the bead area. Since no replacement is made for this area i machined a set of dies male and female that matched the body reveal perfectly. Using the die we rolled our own replacement beads the complete arch of the wheel well. That area of the body is now completed. As of Sunday December 22nd we now have a rust free body everything needing replacement is completed. Learning as we go along has proven to be most times a fun experience.
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Old 12-26-2019, 04:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: 32 sedan patch panels any good ones made?

Ronnie, I agree and applaud your die making skill. If you have some skills it is a fun challenge. I had to weld about 10" all the way around my rusted avatar 32 roadster and a few years ago I repaired a 32 roadster body for a friend that a "body shop" back in the 40s or 50s sliced the quarter from the beautiful reveal up to almost the trunk opening, pushed the metal in,an arc welded it all together. After cutting it out, the repair piece had several reveals as well as compound curves. It took some time to make the part but it TIG welded back in well due to making a good fit up.
Even with nominal skills folks should at least try to make a part first. You can do pretty amazing things with just a bead roller, shrinker/stretcher and English wheel.
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