Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2019, 10:28 AM   #101
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Oh, and as to the question about the starter, it was rebuilt at an auto electrical shop before it was installed.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 10:40 AM   #102
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 5,294
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Good luck. I find one of the most gratifying parts of this hobby is the initial start-up of a new (or revived long-slumbering) engine.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-07-2019, 10:43 AM   #103
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Thanks, I'll probably need that luck.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 08:09 AM   #104
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,410
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

You'll get through this Mr Laser . . . you have the right attitude and are not afraid to get your hands dirty. Best of luck with your startup!

B&S
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2019, 10:32 AM   #105
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

I'm hopeful. Thank you.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2019, 06:07 PM   #106
Sid
Senior Member
 
Sid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rathdrum Idaho
Posts: 640
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Any news on the 8BA?
Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2019, 07:23 PM   #107
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Actually I am away for a week. I will follow-up when I can get back on the " problem". Thanks for your interest.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 10:52 AM   #108
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

As promised I am again posting with an update on the issues that I have been experiencing.

As far as cam timing goes. What I have is identical to that shown on the engine in Mart's attached video, (as seen between approximately 18 min and 22 min in the video). I have verified the exhaust valve movement with the dial indicator shown in the attachment.

https://youtu.be/dn446jjCVR

He is demonstrating valve action on an earlier engine than mine, but it does look like a "crusty" old original. Also, since my cam was reground, I'm not sure what settings were recommended by the cam shop. As I may have previously mentioned, the original engine builder has passed away.

On previous posts, I have mentioned how slowly the engine turns over on 6 volts. When checking the grounds and the cable at the starter lug, I noticed that the starter case was stamped "12 V ". As a result, I connected a 12 V battery to the starter side of the solenoid leaving the "key" side connected to the 6 volt battery, then turned the key to the " on " position ( not using the "start" feature). When the starter was activated by directly connecting it to the 12 volt battery, the engine turned over rapidly. With that setup, repeat compression checks resulted in readings ranging from 78-90 PSI.

In spite of this, there was still no firing. I next checked the intensity of the spark which was regular, but very weak. It would only jump a gap of 1/16" when the center coil wire was held near a head bolt. I located a FoMoCo set of points and condenser and added another ground from the engine to the frame with no change in the intensity of the spark. I have a NAPA. Echlin coil coming next week to use in place of the "off shore" coil that I now have. The distributor is an unmodified, cast iron type LoadoMatic with the cast iron timing cover. We'll see if that helps.

BTW, the carburetor is squirting fuel when the accelerator linkage is pumped.

All very frustrating. Looking for any and all suggestions. Thanks to all who have contributed their knowledge and help thus far.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0113201037b.jpg (52.5 KB, 7 views)
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 11:03 AM   #109
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,410
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Sounds like you're onto at least one issue. Given that it has almost no spark, it surely isn't going to start. Given your compression readings - seems like the rings really aren't seated (and as it's a new engine, not terribly surprising). Once you get a good ignition on it, we can only hope it will fire. Make sure the coil you're going to use has the correct voltage going to it . . . good luck!
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 02:07 PM   #110
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Thanks once again B&S.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 05:10 PM   #111
Sid
Senior Member
 
Sid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rathdrum Idaho
Posts: 640
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Be sure that the ignition wire goes to the - on the coil goes to the key and the + goes to the distributor. If you have an ohm meter check the coil. You put one lead on the + and the other on the - terminal. You want about 1.5 ohm. If all checks out Maybe hotwire the coil and see if spark improves. Neg batt. to neg - coil and see if you get better spark.
Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 06:18 PM   #112
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

I'm sorry that I failed to mention that I have also tried to directly connect the coil to the battery as well as being sure that the coil was connected correctly. Early on I had connected the coil incorrectly and melted the fiber block on points. Haven't made that mistake again.I have also used a multimeter to check the coil but I haven't known what the exact specifications for this particular coil should be. It's hard to remember everything that has been tried when typing for this thread. I really appreciate any and all suggestions that the members of this forum have offered. Thanks to all.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2020, 09:32 PM   #113
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,419
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

What coil are you running?
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 06:51 AM   #114
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

It is a 6 volt canister type, purchased from one e of the well known early Ford parts suppliers. There is no significant information on the box.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 12:23 PM   #115
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

FINALLY!! After replacing the coil with the one manufactured in the USA, the engine tried to start. I had set the distributor to the TDC position on #1 to check the spark intensity. The grounded plug had a vigorous,bright blue spark . Without changing anything, I replaced the plug and plug wire and turned the key to the "on" position. The cylinder fired as the key was turned and moved the crankshaft pulley nearly 45 degrees from the TDC. position. I haven't tried anything else yet because of other commitments. Hopeful.
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 12:28 PM   #116
Sid
Senior Member
 
Sid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rathdrum Idaho
Posts: 640
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Coils don't really care if they are 6 volt or 12 volt. On a 12 volt system the resistor cuts voltage nearly in half anyway. It's the ohm rating to be concerned with. 1.5 or thereabouts on primary side is what you want. To test the secondary side put your meter on 20K. Put one lead on the + post and the other lead in the coil tower. You want a reading of around 9,000 give or take 1,000 or so. 3.0 ohm on primary side is usually considered a 12 volt coil. Also is there any chance you purchased a bad condenser?
Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 03:21 PM   #117
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,419
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid View Post
Coils don't really care if they are 6 volt or 12 volt. On a 12 volt system the resistor cuts voltage nearly in half anyway. It's the ohm rating to be concerned with. 1.5 or thereabouts on primary side is what you want. To test the secondary side put your meter on 20K. Put one lead on the + post and the other lead in the coil tower. You want a reading of around 9,000 give or take 1,000 or so. 3.0 ohm on primary side is usually considered a 12 volt coil. Also is there any chance you purchased a bad condenser?
Sid, this depends on the coil. Different coils have different internal ohm ratings. A lot of the older coils were basically the same (around 1.5 ohm internal resistance) and would work on 6v without a ballast resistor and on 12v with something around 1.5 ohm ballast resistor. BUT, there are 3.0 ohm coils and coils with much less than 1.5 ohms and about everything in between, so you really need to know which coil you are working with. Examples:

The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms.
Flame Thrower II coils have lower resistance at 0.6 ohms.
Flame-Thrower III coils have extremely low resistance of 0.32 ohms.

These are just Flame Thrower examples, almost all coil manufactures provide coils with different internal resistance.

Note: The extremely low ohm coils are used with different types of electronic ignitions and not with a points distributor, but some look a lot like a normal coil. It is best to check them if there is any question.

Last edited by JSeery; 01-14-2020 at 03:30 PM.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 03:42 PM   #118
mrlaser
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 85
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

Well the first two coils that I had tried tested 4.2 and 3.7 ohms when the multi-meter leads were placed on the pos and neg terminals. When the secondary circuit was tested they had readings of 9.14 and 8.39 K ohms. The NOS NAPA 6 volt, Echlin coil that I installed today had readings of 1.5 ohms on the primary circuit and 9.53 K ohms on the secondary. While I don't pretend to know much about this situation, I do know that the spark was much stronger with this latest coil.
As far as condensers are concerned, I have tried 3 different ones but currently have a genuine FoMoCo one in place with a Motorcraft set of points. The other condensers are of unknown origin.

I'm hoping there's a light at the end of the tunnel and that it's not a train
mrlaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 04:13 PM   #119
Sid
Senior Member
 
Sid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Rathdrum Idaho
Posts: 640
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

The Flame Thrower 40,000V coils have internal resistance rated at 1.5 or 3.0 ohms.
Flame Thrower II coils have lower resistance at 0.6 ohms.
Flame-Thrower III coils have extremely low resistance of 0.32 ohms.

Yes that's true that you need to know what coils you're dealing with. I didn't think about factoring the aftermarkets like pertronix and the very low resistance coils. I was thinking oem point style coils from 50's to 70. I myself am running a Pertronix 40011 as a 6 volt positive ground rated at 1.5 ohm. I think that one also comes in a 3 ohm rating.

Last edited by Sid; 01-14-2020 at 04:20 PM.
Sid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2020, 04:17 PM   #120
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,410
Default Re: 8BA compression issues

One thing to know Mr Laser is that in many cases if you find a old NOS condenser, it can be shot inside. I would get a new NAPA Echlin condenser - but maybe wait until your next set of tests. It is never good to change two things at once!
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 AM.