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Old 11-01-2019, 01:48 PM   #1
Werner
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Default One note to modern engine oils

Hallo "Oil-friends"!

This should not give a new forum post series (there are already enough of them)!

But today I dismantled the valve cover. I only sprayed the valve chamber with brake cleaner and blown it dry with compressed air. The photo shows how clean the inner life is. Only in the narrow corners, I have discovered something "tar".

The engine was operated 2500 ml with 20W / 50 SC oil; changed every 500 ml.
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File Type: jpg P1010017.jpg (61.9 KB, 284 views)
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:51 PM   #2
fried okra
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Looks good.

Which brand 20w-50 oil were you using? Using an oil filter or not?

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Old 11-02-2019, 03:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Hallo Fried.


These oldtimer oils are produced here only by small niche manufacturers, because the demand is very low. This brand is 'Rektol'.



SAE 20W-50 is clear. API must be SC. The API class goes up to> SM. For the A engine, the "C" is important. Do not take a higher class than API SC!
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-02-2019, 03:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Do they make thermometers also?
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:18 AM   #5
Bob Bidonde
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Why did you take the engine apart?
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Old 11-02-2019, 07:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

same question as Bob.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Hallo, the engine was not removed/build out. I had only adjusted the valves.
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File Type: jpg P1010015.jpg (75.8 KB, 115 views)
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)

Last edited by Werner; 11-02-2019 at 01:02 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 11-02-2019, 01:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Seems we are back to you original question about "tar". I have no ideas, can anyone venture a guess?
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:14 PM   #9
Werner
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Hallo, there is no question of me here! I just wanted to show how clean the engine is inside when running with additized oil.


@ Fried Okra: No filter.
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-02-2019, 02:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Do not take a higher class than API SC!
Why? - I just bought some API 20-W50 SJ oil for my A. Should I not use it?

Last edited by Mad Mac; 11-02-2019 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:17 PM   #11
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Hallo, there is no question of me here! I just wanted to show how clean the engine is inside when running with additized oil.


@ Fried Okra: No filter.


@Werner: Re-read your post again , yep I read it as a question instead of being your observation.
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

30 CCP,
sorry then I said something wrong. I just wanted to show the clean valve chamber to show how nicely additized engine oils work.

BTW Mad Mac,
in API "C" is everything in it, what an A-engine needs. All API classes above contains many additive additions that are not necessary for "old iron engines". They can attack alloys, they leave very hard residues on engines that always burn some oil.
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Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-03-2019, 02:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Currently from further decomposing two pictures. Again, no deposits, I only sprayed off the engine oil with brake cleaner.
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File Type: jpg P1010142.jpg (72.8 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg P1010147.jpg (55.3 KB, 49 views)
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Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:07 AM   #14
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

I have been working on Model A's for about 10 years and all kinds of aircraft(Air Force and civilian) since I was 18, 63 now. The best oil in my experience is a high quality synthetic for all engines, piston and turbine. Best for quality and price is Mobil 1, for Model A's the High Mileage blend Mobil 1. Look for it on sale and buy in the 5 Quart size, buy a bunch and change often, filter if you can on engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Hallo "Oil-friends"!

This should not give a new forum post series (there are already enough of them)!

But today I dismantled the valve cover. I only sprayed the valve chamber with brake cleaner and blown it dry with compressed air. The photo shows how clean the inner life is. Only in the narrow corners, I have discovered something "tar".

The engine was operated 2500 ml with 20W / 50 SC oil; changed every 500 ml.
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy1st View Post
I have been working on Model A's for about 10 years and all kinds of aircraft(Air Force and civilian) since I was 18, 63 now. The best oil in my experience is a high quality synthetic for all engines, piston and turbine. Best for quality and price is Mobil 1, for Model A's the High Mileage blend Mobil 1. Look for it on sale and buy in the 5 Quart size, buy a bunch and change often, filter if you can on engine.
A main feature of "High Mileage" oil is that it contains seal softening and swelling agents to stop/slow down/prevent leaks. Since there are no neoprene seals to swell and soften in an A, High Mileage oil should not be needed.
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Old 11-10-2019, 04:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Werner,

It's very satisfying to open these covers and see the internals in good condition. I just bought my first model A and know little about this car and A's in general. I dropped the pan on this one to check the condition and was very happy to find very little sludge in the bottom.
I am interested in oils for this engine, due to the lifter design. I've used high zinc oils (Brad Penn) in other modern flat tappet engines. Are high zinc oils recommended in model A engines?
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Old 11-10-2019, 06:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Fleetwood,


engine oil contained much more zinc and phosphorus in the 1960s, which unfortunately does not exist anymore. (Because of catalyst, residues, environmental protection.)

I am not convinced of the commercial zinc additives. Because they should be dosed very exactly. Which is not easy. Too much is bad!

Much better is the addition of molybdenum disulfide. For this one you must consider two knowledge:

MoS2 burns very hard, "glassy" residues. That's why it's less suitable for engines that burn a lot of oil.

And you also have to know that the protective effect in the boundary friction area only works after about 1500 miles. MoS2 is microscopic looking tiny tiny gauzy platelets. The cladding, where relative movement takes place gradually in the surfaces. Below the miroscope, from "pointed craters become flat hills".

In the emergency friction range / mixed friction range, MoS2 is unsurpassed!
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Beste Gruesse aus Deutschland,
Werner


Ford Model A Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Honda CB 450 K 1, 1968
Hercules Wankel Rotary Engine, 1976 (Canadian version)
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Zinc was not originally used. Zinc Additives were used much later on to reduce wear due to the higher force valve springs in much higher reving cars. Zinc is not required in Model As due to the low reving Model A Engine, and the Model A lower valve spring strength.
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Old 11-11-2019, 12:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Just run Rotella T 15-40 and never look back.
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Old 11-11-2019, 03:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: One note to modern engine oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by captndan View Post
Just run Rotella T 15-40 and never look back.
Even if your engine is smoking
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