Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2019, 03:15 PM   #1
31deluxe
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 4
Default No compression all cylinders

Working with a friend to get his 30 coupe running. Got caught in a fire years ago but it was pulled out by the firemen .

It was running before the fire.


We wired it up. Good spark rotor turning



NO COMPRESSION ALL CYLINDERS. Timing gear good.



Any suggestions as too troubleshooting.
31deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 04:19 PM   #2
Chuck Dempsey
Senior Member
 
Chuck Dempsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waynesville, NC
Posts: 415
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Are you POSITIVE the timing gear is good? My only sure check is to pull the gear cover from the front of the engine and spin the crankshaft. If the timing gear CONTINUOUSLY spins, it should be good.... Otherwise valves for all four cylinders could be stuck, but that's pretty unlikely. Good luck!
Chuck Dempsey is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #3
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Even if the timing gear turns, the valves could be stuck open. It only takes one in each cylinder and if the motor has been hot, I think itis quite possible they are sticky enough that the cam is able to open them but the springs, maybe weakened by the fire, can't close them.
__________________
Pulsing like a beacon through the days and nights, one's birthplace sends out its invisible waves of recollection. It always has and it always will, until even the last of us come home. : Clive James
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 04:29 PM   #4
31deluxe
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 4
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Took the side cover off of the timing gear cover. Could see the timing gear moving when cranking. Plugs out - see valves going up and down. Compression tester and "thumb" test -No compression all 4
31deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 04:51 PM   #5
Patrick L.
Senior Member
 
Patrick L.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Upstate NY and western Florida
Posts: 5,204
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

If the 'valves are going up and down' then check the valve lash and look at the timing gears to make sure it hasn't jumped time for some reason.
Patrick L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 05:08 PM   #6
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

If the motor got too hot, the rings might have lost their tension or the head warped (unlikely)
Give us some idea on how hot it got. What was the condition of the radiator afterwards, likewise paint, grease running out of the wheel bearings? Distributor body charred or gone?
__________________
Pulsing like a beacon through the days and nights, one's birthplace sends out its invisible waves of recollection. It always has and it always will, until even the last of us come home. : Clive James
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:23 PM   #7
31deluxe
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 4
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

I will try to get a little more info on the fire. He said he changed the head gasket and manifold gaskets. Loose manifold gaskets?
31deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 09:27 PM   #8
Railcarmover
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: No compression all cylinders



This chassis was in a house fire,the coupe body was destroyed,warped and soft as cheese.The engine too a lot of heat from the fuel tank burning..upon disassembly and inspection the entire long block was completely salvageable..
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2019, 11:03 PM   #9
Fullraceflathead
Senior Member
 
Fullraceflathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Riverside, Ca
Posts: 920
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

I’ll bet the valves are sticking open from old varnished fuel residue.
__________________
"If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses."
-Henry Ford

"Primitive technology is not a design flaw"


1928 Ford Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Gordon Smith Air Compressor
1941 Willy's Pickup
1960 Thunderbird-For Sale
1964 Buick Riviera 2x4 425
1965 Pontiac GTO, 455 Super Duty
2004 Dodge Ram SRT-10, V-10 Viper
1977 Charger Jet Boat,460 Ford,Jacuzzi Jet
Front Engine Nostalgia Dragster,Supercharged 296 "Fullrace Flathead" Ford
Engine Build up on DVD ask
Fullraceflathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 07:57 AM   #10
john charlton
Senior Member
 
john charlton's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 719
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

My guess is that the timing wheel was cooked and damaged and lost a tooth or two .

John in West Drayton London England .
john charlton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 08:17 AM   #11
Railcarmover
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: No compression all cylinders





Fire was so hot it warped the right front wheel,consumed everything that would burn on the engine but the internals were fine.Whats important is the floor the car was sitting on,this one was on concrete.Heat rises and concrete doesn't burn,tire fire is hot and the interior of the restored coupe burns hot,but the chassis didnt see that kind of heat.
Railcarmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 09:06 AM   #12
Chuck Dempsey
Senior Member
 
Chuck Dempsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waynesville, NC
Posts: 415
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

'Soft as cheese...' - I believe it.
Chuck Dempsey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 09:23 AM   #13
popeye29
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Try adding a teaspoon of oil to each cylinder to seal rings and to up the compression.
popeye29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 09:58 AM   #14
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 663
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by popeye29 View Post
Try adding a teaspoon of oil to each cylinder to seal rings and to up the compression.

Your first post after joining 8 years ago. Welcome to the party!
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 11:40 AM   #15
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,605
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

You could try diagnosing just cylinder 1.


Get the rotor pointing correctly to spark plug one, Use the timing pin to find TDC cylinder 1 (rotor should still point to spark plug 1/cylinder one). If not pointing correctly, mechanical timing has slipped.


If rotor and timing pin align correctly, with the valve access cover off, use compressed air into the cylinder 1 to locate where the leak is (leak down test). You may have to drop the oil pan. If you hear air in the exhaust, exhaust valve is not seated, if you hear air in the Intake manifold/carb, the intake valve is not closed. if you hear air in the bottom end then it is possible rings, block. If the radiator cooling system is full and bubbles in the radiator or you may hear air in the radiator if radiator is not full, bad head gasket, cracked block. Not sure if I have all the symptoms/causes here.
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 11:46 AM   #16
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 1,839
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
You could try diagnosing just cylinder 1.


Get the rotor pointing correctly to spark plug one, Use the timing pin to find TDC cylinder 1 (rotor should still point to spark plug 1/cylinder one). If not pointing correctly, mechanical timing has slipped.


If rotor and timing pin align correctly, with the valve access cover off, use compressed air into the cylinder 1 to locate where the leak is (leak down test). You may have to drop the oil pan. If you hear air in the exhaust, exhaust valve is not seated, if you hear air in the Intake manifold/carb, the intake valve is not closed. if you hear air in the bottom end then it is possible rings, block. If the radiator cooling system is full and bubbles in the radiator or you may hear air in the radiator if radiator is not full, bad head gasket, cracked block. Not sure if I have all the symptoms/causes here.
You shouldn't need to remove the oil pan, just remove the oil fill cap! I would only use 60 lbs of compressed air.
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 12:12 PM   #17
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,605
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big hammer View Post
You shouldn't need to remove the oil pan, just remove the oil fill cap! I would only use 60 lbs of compressed air.
True, but suggested dropping the pan in this case for an inspection, since it has been through a fire. My feeling is better to check out the bottom end before getting it running. Best to be thorough by dropping the pan, and putting in new pan gaskets may be a good thing due to the fire.
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 01:13 PM   #18
big job
Senior Member
 
big job's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dighton, Mass
Posts: 784
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

My logic I have seen this before and it takes munch heat to damage engine mostly
plastic stuff wires yes . Idea is an engine will not burn, the engine is not fire wood, its
just the burnable stuff. We had a mint 58 Continental covert' house fire, the car
toasted what a shame we salvaged that and a mint Hudson also toasted. The 430 Lincoln
we replaced the melted fuel pump carb and distributor. New oil started up like a champ
same thing with Hudson 6 runs perfectly. and I still have both engines storage...
big job is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 05:17 PM   #19
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,501
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

How soft are the valve springs? That motor has been pretty darned hot. I suspect they have lost tension. Piston rings might have done the same.
__________________
Pulsing like a beacon through the days and nights, one's birthplace sends out its invisible waves of recollection. It always has and it always will, until even the last of us come home. : Clive James

Last edited by Synchro909; 10-28-2019 at 05:05 PM.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2019, 09:02 PM   #20
eagle
Senior Member
 
eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Eagle Bend, MN
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: No compression all cylinders

It doesn't take much of a cylinder to produce "thumb compression". Must be stuck valves. They may be moving but not closing. I'd pull the head, the valve cover and the pan and look the internals over. If you plan on salvaging the engine its good to know what it looks like inside.
__________________
"There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."
eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:39 PM.