Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-20-2019, 03:13 PM   #21
jim galli
Senior Member
 
jim galli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Tonopah, NV.
Posts: 283
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus View Post
I have some axle shafts that are in nice shape except for an annular groove worn into the shaft where it rides in the seal inside the housing. Is this a potential site for breakage or not a concern (aside from oil leagake)?
It appears this is the area of the breakage in my case. Groove gets worn and perhaps even a bit more heat at that one spot over 90 years. Maybe this spot becomes the "stress riser"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronn View Post
maybe the HS buddies were doing hole shots, while you were out picking up lunch...........?
I'm more worried about the transmission when they drive than the rear end. Crunch crunch crunch.

Hey, if it only breaks every 90 years, I'm good with it.
__________________
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose... Jim Elliott, 1949

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com
jim galli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 03:22 PM   #22
Jim M
Senior Member
 
Jim M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sebastian, FL
Posts: 340
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

I had one crack and was lucky someone following me tooted and told me my right rear wheel was wobbling. Shure enough when I took it apart there was TWO cracks and would not have lasted long. I took the oppurtunity to take everything off up the the engine while I had it apart. After lots of $'s and 6 months of putzing it is back together and running fine. I got two used axles from Bert's and am VERY satisfied with everything I have got from Steve. He also knows just about everything you ever need to know about the A's and gives great advice!!! Jim
Jim M is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-20-2019, 04:16 PM   #23
Tom Endy
Senior Member
 
Tom Endy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,492
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

I had a job a while back where the failure mode was the gear end of an original axle shaft sheared where the gear attached to the shaft. There were actually two failure modes. Years before the differential had been overhauled by someone who did not understand carrier pre-load. When the car was back on the road the rear was locked. Henry's 40 horses broke it loose. Usually it does so by spinning the carrier bearings on the mounting hubs. In this case it was locked so tight that it sheared the hub on the ring side of the carrier. The car operated like this for about 8 years before the heat cycling finally got to the axle shaft and the left axle shaft sheared right at the gear next to the sheared carrier hub.

See the attached link for photos.

Tom Endy



http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ilure-2018.pdf
Tom Endy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 06:48 PM   #24
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 371
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

If I want to check the torque on those axle nuts, do I need to remove the wheel or can I just remove the hub cap? May be a stupid question, but I'm having trouble visualizing it.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 07:05 PM   #25
M2M
Senior Member
 
M2M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: AUSTRALIA/USA/EU/RUSSIA
Posts: 821
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Endy View Post
I had a job a while back where the failure mode was the gear end of an original axle shaft sheared where the gear attached to the shaft. There were actually two failure modes. Years before the differential had been overhauled by someone who did not understand carrier pre-load. When the car was back on the road the rear was locked. Henry's 40 horses broke it loose. Usually it does so by spinning the carrier bearings on the mounting hubs. In this case it was locked so tight that it sheared the hub on the ring side of the carrier. The car operated like this for about 8 years before the heat cycling finally got to the axle shaft and the left axle shaft sheared right at the gear next to the sheared carrier hub.

See the attached link for photos.

Tom Endy

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ilure-2018.pdf



Tom, perhaps you can get a hold of one the new one piece axles Steve from Berts mentioned and let us know what you think.
__________________

M2M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 07:20 PM   #26
Mike Peters
Senior Member
 
Mike Peters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South East Wisconsin
Posts: 648
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

If I want to check the torque on those axle nuts, do I need to remove the wheel or can I just remove the hub cap? May be a stupid question, but I'm having trouble visualizing it.

Alexi_ There is a cotter pin to remove in order to check axle nut torque. It will be much easier to remove the wheel in order to get the cotter pin out and back in later. If there is no cotter pin in your axle, by all means install new cotter pins.
Mike Peters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2019, 07:34 PM   #27
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
If I want to check the torque on those axle nuts, do I need to remove the wheel or can I just remove the hub cap? May be a stupid question, but I'm having trouble visualizing it.


I would just remove the hub cap . Removal of the hub cap may require the removal of the wheel to bend back tabs


If you have an extra wheel and tire without a hub cap ,

maybe you could temporarily use it and save having to remove the hub cap on your nice painted wheel .

After the axle nut is retorqued the original wheel can be replaced

The 28-29 hubcaps can sometimes be snapped off like a modern hubcap
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 09:45 AM   #28
Bob Bidonde
Senior Member
 
Bob Bidonde's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,548
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

100 ft-lbs torque on the axle nut is extreme in my opinion as it increase the tensile stress in the axle shaft. Cracks occur in tension stress fields. I run with 50 ft-lbs, and have not had any issues doing so in over 50 years of Model A'ing.
__________________
Bob Bidonde
Bob Bidonde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 10:12 AM   #29
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 371
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde View Post
100 ft-lbs torque on the axle nut is extreme in my opinion
Don't the V8 guys torque to 200? 100 doesn't seem extreme in that context.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 10:19 AM   #30
ryanheacox
Senior Member
 
ryanheacox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Northwest CT
Posts: 669
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

According to my bolt chart, Grade 5 5/8-18 is good for 170ft-lb dry. Assuming the axle shaft is not quite grade 5 and with 90 years of use and fatigue I definitely wouldn't want to go over 100ft-lb. Last time I did mine I went to 90 and then lined up for the cotter pin.
ryanheacox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 01:21 PM   #31
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,461
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursus View Post
I have some axle shafts that are in nice shape except for an annular groove worn into the shaft where it rides in the seal inside the housing. Is this a potential site for breakage or not a concern (aside from oil leagake)?
Unless that groove was deep and had sharp edges I wouldn't think it will be a problem.
I think worn wheel bearings and axle tube could allow more flex and could be a contributing cause to broken axles.
I'm an easy driver, and have never broken an axle.
Hole shots, and spinning the wheel on mud or ice can certainly snap an axle.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2019, 11:03 PM   #32
dumb person
Senior Member
 
dumb person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South pacific island
Posts: 1,593
Default Re: Why did my axle break?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
Don't the V8 guys torque to 200? 100 doesn't seem extreme in that context.
I don't think they do. Probably 120 max.
200 for a rotary flywheel nut maybe, but you'd pull the axle right through the hub at 200 on a ford.
__________________
<Link> This is how we roll<Link>

"I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob
Outcasts rules of old cars
#1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated
#2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong
#3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough.
#4 No shame in recreating something you never had
#5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable
dumb person is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 AM.